Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **NozeMan** » Sat, 28 Jul 2012 17:29:32

Quick background : I am a military member stationed in VA but am a Florida resident. My FL license actually has my current VA address on it however. I went from a set of orders that had me in VA as my permanent duty station to a set that has me here as an intermediate stop. I have some travel to execute for the next few months and then VA will be my permanent duty station again in December.

I would like to purchase or transfer a long gun. Ive looked at the state police site and it looks like all i need is my license and a utility bill with matching address. I have a bill for my VA home that matches my FL driver's license address. In my mind I should be good. Some local shops didn't want to hear it and would only do the military id and orders route.

Has anyone run into this before? Worst case scenario I just wait until I'm back from travel and check in as my permanent duty station.

Have any military members here with FL licenses had problems buying guns in Virginia? A concurrent thread is discussing the issue of contiguous States in which someone can buy from.

by **jdonovan** » Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:00:41

NozeMan wrote:I would like to purchase or transfer a long gun. Ive looked at the state police site and it looks like all i need is my license and a utility bill with matching address. I have a bill for my VA home that matches my FL driver's license address. In my mind I should be good. Some local shops didn't want to hear it and would only do the military id and orders route.

The problem with all of this is proving PCS status/location. With out the orders _I_ can't validate that you are in fact assigned to a Virginia base. What the VA State Police say is OK, is not the same as the federal 4473 requirements.

from the dealer instructions side of the 4473

Question 20a. Identification: List issuing authority (e.g., State, County or Municipality) and type of identification presented (e.g., Virginia driver’s license (VA DL), or other valid government-issued identification).
Know Your Customer: Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and
age of the buyer. The buyer must provide a valid government-issued photo identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, residence address,
and date of birth. The licensee must record the type, identification number,
and expiration date (if any) of the identification in question 20.a. A driver’s license or an identification card issued by a State in place of a license is acceptable. Social Security cards are not acceptable because no address, date of birth, or photograph is shown on the cards. A combination of government-
issued documents may be provided. For example, if a U.S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver’s license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address. If the buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her permanent duty station is located, but he or she has a driver’s license from another State, you should list the buyer’s military identification card and official orders showing where his or her permanent duty station is located in response to question 20.a.

The 4473 directions require me to see your orders AND military ID if you have an out of state DL.

by **rromeo** » Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:36:39

A Florida resident should be able to buy long guns in Virginia, regardless of military status. Am I right? I suppose the FL license with VA address adds complications.

by **jdonovan** » Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:21:39

rromeo wrote:A Florida resident should be able to buy long guns in Virginia, regardless of military status. Am I right?

Yes, a person who is not otherwise prohibited, may buy, and take possession of a long arm in a state other than their residence (under federal law). There may be state laws that prohibit this however.

I suppose the FL license with VA address adds complications.

Which ever state you are claiming residency in, you need other acceptable documents supporting that declaration.

The instructions to the dealer are clear when a person makes a declaration of being active duty military. At that point if they have a non-local DL, you need to produce orders, and military ID.

by **NozeMan** » Sun, 29 Jul 2012 19:16:49

jdonovan wrote:
NozeMan wrote:I would like to purchase or transfer a long gun. Ive looked at the state police site and it looks like all i need is my license and a utility bill with matching address. I have a bill for my VA home that matches my FL driver's license address. In my mind I should be good. Some local shops didn't want to hear it and would only do the military id and orders route.

The problem with all of this is proving PCS status/location. With out the orders _I_ can't validate that you are in fact assigned to a Virginia base. What the VA State Police say is OK, is not the same as the federal 4473 requirements.

from the dealer instructions side of the 4473
Question 20a. Identification: List issuing authority (e.g., State, County or Municipality) and type of identification presented (e.g., Virginia driver’s license (VA DL), or other valid government-issued identification).
Know Your Customer: Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and
age of the buyer. The buyer must provide a valid government-issued photo identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, residence address,
and date of birth. The licensee must record the type, identification number,
and expiration date (if any) of the identification in question 20.a. A driver’s license or an identification card issued by a State in place of a license is acceptable. Social Security cards are not acceptable because no address, date of birth, or photograph is shown on the cards. A combination of government-
issued documents may be provided. For example, if a U.S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver’s license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address. If the buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her permanent duty station is located, but he or she has a driver’s license from another State, you should list the buyer’s military identification card and official orders showing where his or her permanent duty station is located in response to question 20.a.

The 4473 directions require me to see your orders AND military ID if you have an out of state DL.

Based on your explanation (and it is greatly appreciated) it seems that I am better off waiting until I'm back on permanent duty orders.

So by showing my orders and ID, I am good to buy anything from a shop?

by **RocKor** » Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:55:11

If you have a valid Military ID and orders that station you in VA you can essentially buy firearms as if you were a VA resident.

by **Diomed** » Mon, 30 Jul 2012 00:19:36

jdonovan wrote:There may be state laws that prohibit this however.

My understanding is that Florida has a contiguous state law, so an attempt to buy as a Florida resident in VA would be denied by NICS.

Either wait for PCS orders, or, if you're claiming to already be a VA resident (which you can do), acquire suitable VA documentation.

by **jdonovan** » Mon, 30 Jul 2012 04:49:07

NozeMan wrote:Based on your explanation (and it is greatly appreciated) it seems that I am better off waiting until I'm back on permanent duty orders.

So by showing my orders and ID, I am good to buy anything from a shop?

if you are on TDY orders, then your state of residence does not change with those. Only a PCS order gives you the ability to purchase arms as a resident of the state the base you were assigned to is located.

by **NozeMan** » Mon, 30 Jul 2012 05:24:33

jdonovan wrote:
NozeMan wrote:Based on your explanation (and it is greatly appreciated) it seems that I am better off waiting until I'm back on permanent duty orders.

So by showing my orders and ID, I am good to buy anything from a shop?

if you are on TDY orders, then your state of residence does not change with those. Only a PCS order gives you the ability to purchase arms as a resident of the state the base you were assigned to is located.

You've made it crystal clear. Thanks for the great explanation.