Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Rumson wrote:I stay under 3 1/4 for concealed folders. Anything larger need to be in the open such as sheathed and on the hip with no shirt covering it. Seems to have worked for the last few decades and I have presented the folder to law enforcement in the past.

I've also presented larger folders when I was driving/slinging freight for a living, but it was considered a tool each time. Don't have the statute on any of these, but that's been my experience.

ETA: If you get yanked by the police based on my post, I am not a lawyer and have never played one on TV. But it does give you input to further pursue the statutes.

zephyp wrote:

Rumson wrote:I stay under 3 1/4 for concealed folders. Anything larger need to be in the open such as sheathed and on the hip with no shirt covering it. Seems to have worked for the last few decades and I have presented the folder to law enforcement in the past.

I've also presented larger folders when I was driving/slinging freight for a living, but it was considered a tool each time. Don't have the statute on any of these, but that's been my experience.

ETA: If you get yanked by the police based on my post, I am not a lawyer and have never played one on TV. But it does give you input to further pursue the statutes.

I thought the limit on concealed folders was 3 1/2? Mine is 3 1/4 for that reason...

Rumson wrote:Probably so. I try stay at 3 1/4 and don't want to push the limit as the measuring point may be subject to interpretation by the arresting officer.

The knife has several distinctive features, all obvious from a visual inspection. The metal hilt of the knife has a cross-guard to protect the hand from sliding forward during a thrusting motion.2 Measuring 1 3⁄4 inches, the cross-guard extends perpendicularly to the handle. The oversized hilt has notched indentations to enhance finger grip. On both sides of the hilt appears a raised metal relief of an oriental dragon. The knife blade comes to a point and has a serrated cutting edge. The blade locks securely in place when extended. It can be retracted only when manually unlocked. The total length of the knife, when locked in an extended position, is 8 inches. Of that length, the blade takes up 31⁄2 inches.

As the Virginia Supreme Court has explained, the “purpose of the statute was to interdict the practice of carrying a deadly weapon about the person, concealed, and yet so accessible as to afford prompt and immediate use.” Schaaf v. Commonwealth, 220 Va. 429, 430, 258 S.E.2d 574, 574-75 (1979) (quoting Sutherland v. Commonwealth, 109 Va. 834, 835-36, 65 S.E. 15, 15 (1909)). To achieve this purpose, the General Assembly listed knives
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commonly used as fighting weapons. Dirks and bowie knives, for example, make useful “stabbing” weapons. O’Banion, 33 Va. App. at 58 n.2, 531 S.E.2d at 604 n.2. They have fixed blades and often, like small swords or stilettos, have cross-guards to protect the hand from sliding onto the blade during a thrust. The bowie knife has only one sharpened side, but the other side curves into a point useful for piercing. See id. While technically a folding “pocketknife,” id., a switchblade is also prohibited as it locks into a fixed position for fighting purposes. It too sometimes has a small cross-guard on its hilt for hand protection.
The General Assembly, however, did not provide an exhaustive list of fighting knives. Added to those specifically mentioned is a nonspecific category for “weapons of like kind.” Code § 18.2-308(A)(v). To fit within this category, a knife “must first be a weapon.” Delcid v. Commonwealth, 32 Va. App. 14, 17-18, 526 S.E.2d 273, 275 (2000). As we have explained:
Common experience teaches that bladed instruments may be possessed and used for non-aggressive as well as aggressive purposes. In the former instance, they are deemed implements; in the latter, weapons. Any given bladed instrument may fall into either category or both, depending on the circumstances and purpose surrounding its possession and use.
Id. This focus on a knife’s weapon-like properties excludes “from concealed weapons statutes innocuous household and industrial knives which may be carried for legitimate purposes.” Richards v. Commonwealth, 18 Va. App. 242, 246 n.2, 443 S.E.2d 177, 179 n.2 (1994). Thus, a schoolboy’s common pocketknife would necessarily fall outside the reach of the statute. See Wood ex rel. Wood v. Henry County Pub. Sch., 255 Va. 85, 95, 495 S.E.2d 255, 261 (1998).
A “weapon of like kind” includes a knife that, while not possessing the exact physical properties of the enumerated knives, has the characteristics of a fighting knife just the same. A butterfly knife, for example, is a locking pocketknife that folds into a two-part hinged
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handle. Its unusual handle does not resemble any of the knives listed in the statute. But its utility as a fighting weapon makes it a “like kind” weapon under Code § 18.2-308(A)(v). Delcid, 32 Va. App. at 18, 526 S.E.2d at 275. In particular, its “fixed blade, sharp point, and single-sharpened edge afford unquestionable utility as a stabbing weapon, useful in the same manner as a dagger, stiletto, or dirk.” Id.
Whether a knife’s fighting qualities make it a “weapon of like kind” involves “a question of fact determined by the trier of fact according to the circumstances of the case.” Richards, 18 Va. App. at 246 n.2, 443 S.E.2d at 179 n.2; see also Delcid, 32 Va. App. at 17, 526 S.E.2d at 274 (holding that the question whether a particular knife is a “weapon of like kind” is “a question of fact to be determined by the trier of fact”). We can overturn this factual determination only if it is “plainly wrong” or “without evidence to support it.” Code § 8.01-680.3

Everett113 wrote:I have a boot knife that was given to me by my Father. He was a LEO from another state. I have thought of carrying it from time to time. It has a 3 1/2"
blade and sharpen on both sides. Would this be illegal even with my CCW permit? I have wondered about this for some time.