Pachmayr Rifle Mtl Snp Caps 22-250Rm 2pk - Rifle Metal Snap CapsRifle Mtl Snp Caps 22-250Rm 2pk - Rifle Metal Snap Caps
Pachmayr
    Pachmayr Rifle Metal Snp Caps 45-70Gvt 2pk - Rifle Metal Snap CapsRifle Metal Snp Caps 45-70Gvt 2pk - Rifle Metal Snap Caps
Pachmayr
    Pachmayr Rifle Metal Snap Caps 8x57Msr 2pk - Rifle Metal Snap CapsRifle Metal Snap Caps 8x57Msr 2pk - Rifle Metal Snap Caps
Pachmayr

Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Post your (General Firearms Related) question and it's likely that someone can give you the answer

Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby jcubeta » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:40:00

I have owned a Chinese import 20 gauge side by side coach gun for quite some time now. I am now looking to give my old bedside companion a modern lift by taking the barrel way down, shorter than 18 inches. I've done a lot of reading on the obligations of Class Three weapon ownership, but I was unsure of the exact process of turning a regular shotgun into a SBS. Do I simply take it to a gunsmith to get the barrels cut and send my form and tax away or do I need a specific gunsmith to do Class Three work? Also, could anyone point me towards the most current copy of the paperwork I need to fill out? Thank you all for your time.

-Jeff


User avatar
jcubeta
Pot Shot
Pot Shot
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:29:17
First Name: Jeff

My Arsenal:
Ruger 10/22 (modified), Mosin Nagant (sniper modified), Coach Side by Side 20g, Maverick 88 (long barrel, modified choke) 12g, Ruger SP101

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby SgtBill » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:27:23

I see that you do not own any pistol's by what you list with your profile. Do I take it that you are under the age of 21 and if you are then I do not think that you need a cut down home defense 20 gauge shotgun nor will you qualify for any type of a class 3 permit.
Bill


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Marine Corps   Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Air Force  
SgtBill
VGOF Silver Supporter
VGOF Silver Supporter
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:31:47
Location: Charlotte County Va.
First Name: Bill

My Arsenal:
Too many to list.

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby GS78 » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:45:17

jcubeta wrote:I have owned a Chinese import 20 gauge side by side coach gun for quite some time now. I am now looking to give my old bedside companion a modern lift by taking the barrel way down, shorter than 18 inches. I've done a lot of reading on the obligations of Class Three weapon ownership, but I was unsure of the exact process of turning a regular shotgun into a SBS. Do I simply take it to a gunsmith to get the barrels cut and send my form and tax away or do I need a specific gunsmith to do Class Three work? Also, could anyone point me towards the most current copy of the paperwork I need to fill out? Thank you all for your time.

-Jeff
I know a really knowledgable guy near camp peary, williamsburg area.Pm me if you need contact info.
'those who hammer their guns into plows , will plow for those who don't'






"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."...George Orwell


User avatar
GS78
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:10:18

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby jcubeta » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:53:05

Just as clarification, 22 years old, with a Ruger SP101 to go with my concealed carry permit. Never did get around to updating that inventory. Further thoughts?


User avatar
jcubeta
Pot Shot
Pot Shot
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:29:17
First Name: Jeff

My Arsenal:
Ruger 10/22 (modified), Mosin Nagant (sniper modified), Coach Side by Side 20g, Maverick 88 (long barrel, modified choke) 12g, Ruger SP101

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby MountainCat » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:28:10

VA Law on Sawed off Shotguns: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-299

As you know other Federal laws apply.

Here's a question for you guys: Would a person who either cut his own gun down or who had a smith cut it down then be the "Manufacturer"? I thought that's how it worked with automatics.


User avatar
MountainCat
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:59:05
Location: VA Mountains
First Name: T

My Arsenal:
Rubber Band Pistol

Next Firearm:
Rubber Band Rifle

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby OakRidgeStars » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:36:44

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Image @OakRidgeStars


Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member   Virginia Shooting Sports Association (VSSA) Member   Gun Owners of America (GOA) Member   Oath Keepers (OK) Member   Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) Member  
User avatar
OakRidgeStars
VGOF Gold Supporter
VGOF Gold Supporter
 
Posts: 11935
Joined: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:13:20
Location: Virginia Beach
First Name: Jay

My Arsenal:
I have no idea what you're talking about

Next Firearm:
Something scary...

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby Vahunter » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:50:26

Get the tax stamp first. For some reason a short barrel shotgun is classified as an AOW {any other weapon} and the stamp is only $5.00 unless it went up in the past year. SBR {short barrel rifle} stamp is $200.00. I doubt if you'll a gunsmith that will cut it down before you get the stamp. Big time felony.


User avatar
Vahunter
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:07:05
Location: Charlotte County
First Name: Henry

My Arsenal:
All my guns were lost in a tragic duck hunting accident when the boat over turned.

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby GS78 » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:36:16

I can't remember the name of the outfit, but at the Hampton show, a guy had a double barrel shotgun, but it was a pistol, almost like an old pirate type weapon, but he was telling me it was a class 3 weapon..... It looked like a real handfull.... :whistle:
'those who hammer their guns into plows , will plow for those who don't'






"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."...George Orwell


User avatar
GS78
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:10:18

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby SgtBill » Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:04:43

jcubeta wrote:Just as clarification, 22 years old, with a Ruger SP101 to go with my concealed carry permit. Never did get around to updating that inventory. Further thoughts?


I was not trying to bust your stones but I also would not give you any information unless I was assured that you were over 21 year's old.
Bill


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Marine Corps   Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Air Force  
SgtBill
VGOF Silver Supporter
VGOF Silver Supporter
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:31:47
Location: Charlotte County Va.
First Name: Bill

My Arsenal:
Too many to list.

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby Diomed » Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:16:43

jcubeta wrote:Do I simply take it to a gunsmith to get the barrels cut and send my form and tax away or do I need a specific gunsmith to do Class Three work?

Depends, do you mind having your info engraved on the gun or would you prefer having someone else's? Option one means you get to keep your gun while waiting for the stamp to come back. Option two means handing it over to a licensed manufacturer so they can register it, and then waiting for the stamp to come back so you can take your gun back home.

Also, could anyone point me towards the most current copy of the paperwork I need to fill out?

Order from ATF, it's paid for by your tax dollars: http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/

You'll need F1 (5320.1), get a couple copies in case you mess up and have to start over, F5320.20, get a couple of those as well, and FBI FD-258LE, the fingerprint cards.

Vahunter wrote:For some reason a short barrel shotgun is classified as an AOW {any other weapon} and the stamp is only $5.00 unless it went up in the past year.

This is a common misconception. AOWs are not short barreled shotguns. If you want to convert a shotgun, it can never* be an AOW if it's had a buttstock attached to it, because what are commonly called AOW shotguns, e.g. the Serbu Super Shorty, are more accurately designated as smoothbore pistols. Per federal law, a pistol cannot be able to be fired from the shoulder, and if there's a stock on it or there has ever been a stock on it, it's not a pistol anymore.

The ins and outs are confusing, even for those in the trade. Suffice to say, your Norinco double can't be an AOW. Even if it could it would still cost $200 to register - a Form 1 always costs $200 unless you're a police department.

MountainCat wrote:Would a person who either cut his own gun down or who had a smith cut it down then be the "Manufacturer"?

You are the maker. There is a subtle but distinct difference.

SgtBill wrote:Do I take it that you are under the age of 21 and if you are then I do not think that you need a cut down home defense 20 gauge shotgun nor will you qualify for any type of a class 3 permit.

You would be incorrect, as anyone who is otherwise not disabled may register a firearm so long as they are over eighteen. They may also acquire a registered firearm from someone in the same state who is not a dealer, same as with non-NFA firearms. The twenty-one limit only applies to FFLs.

* - You could make a shotgun into an AOW if you permanently installed a rifled barrel insert, making it a combination gun, or if you were able to disguise it as something else, like a briefcase gun.


User avatar
Diomed
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 1891
Joined: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:28:14
Location: Central VA
First Name: Nah

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby carson » Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:23:02

ok this might be an old thread and i might be re-hatching old conversations, but I'm new to this forum and mainly on SgtBills account. People like him are the reason most open-carriers and firearm entusiasts get bad names. Everyone thank bill.

For starters, someone asked a question and began by saying he owned a 12 guage. Why must you ask his age and knowledge on guns to give him information on legally obtaining a short-barrelled shotgun? Dont bust his balls give him an answer, prick.

Secondly, why must you need someone to be 21 to speak with them? This is America, and we live in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Go learn something before you try and teach others. There are a few things that being 21 does for you in this state including,
1. Buying alcohol
2. Getting a federal permit for automatics, silencers, etc..
3. Obtaining a concealed weapons permit.

I am under 21 and LEGALLY own firearms. Go ask a police officer if you do not believe me, however at 18 you can legally own whatever HANDGUN/PISTOL, SHOTGUN, or ASSAULT RIFLE that you can afford. You just may not purchase them at a FFL but thats why us here in the good ol' US of A have gun shows and private person to person sales.

So instead of being a overly-cautious not helpful prick, do research and know what you are talking about or just keep your b.s to yourself please.


User avatar
carson
Pot Shot
Pot Shot
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:12:23

My Arsenal:
mossberg, glock, soon to own h&k

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby zephyp » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 03:29:23

@Carson - welcome to VGOF and happy Monday....and a great way to start off your stay here too might I add...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

Image


User avatar
zephyp
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
 
Posts: 10207
Joined: Tue, 05 May 2009 08:40:55
Location: Springfield, VA
First Name: DK

My Arsenal:
My Favs:
Whatever gets the job done.

Next Firearm:
M-1 Garand

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby allingeneral » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:54:51

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Image


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Navy   National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member  
User avatar
allingeneral
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:38:25
Location: King George, Virginia
First Name: Rick

My Arsenal:
Ruger 10/22
S&W 4043 .40
Daly 1911 .45
Mossberg 500 12Ga
Rem 870 Super Mag
Ranger Youth 20Ga
Browning Buck Mark .22

Next Firearm:
Lever Action .357Mag

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby OakRidgeStars » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:26:33

That might be the best first-post ---- evah :hysterical:
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Image @OakRidgeStars


Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member   Virginia Shooting Sports Association (VSSA) Member   Gun Owners of America (GOA) Member   Oath Keepers (OK) Member   Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) Member  
User avatar
OakRidgeStars
VGOF Gold Supporter
VGOF Gold Supporter
 
Posts: 11935
Joined: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:13:20
Location: Virginia Beach
First Name: Jay

My Arsenal:
I have no idea what you're talking about

Next Firearm:
Something scary...

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby VBshooter » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:01:52

Yup just might be that indeed!!!Image
Image "Not to worry, I got this !!! " "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker


National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member   Gun Owners of America (GOA) Member   Oath Keepers (OK) Member   Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) Member  
User avatar
VBshooter
VGOF Silver Supporter
VGOF Silver Supporter
 
Posts: 3851
Joined: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:14:27
Location: Virginia Beach
First Name: Spence

Next Firearm:
H&K Sig or an AK47/74

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby jrswanson1 » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:33:11

Back to the original topic. Yes, I'm over 21. I have an old SxS that I got from a friend's father. Half of the barrel is rusted. I would like to cut it down past the rust, which would make the barrels 10" long. And I'd like to cut the stock off to the pistol grip. Is it safe to assume that doing so will be okay as long as I pay the $200 stamp? This is really confusing. I don't care what it's called, I'm basically asking if I pay the $200, can I make this a double-barreled pistol? Thanks.

Jim


User avatar
jrswanson1
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:23:03
Location: Woodbridge
First Name: Jim

My Arsenal:
3 AR-15s
CETME
Rem 700 CDL 7mm-08
Win 94 .45 Colt
Ruger Mini-14 .223
Kel Tec Sub2000 9mm
Rem 870 Express Super Mag
Rem 11-87P
Spanish SxS 12 Gauge
ParaOrdnance P16-40 .40 S&W
CZ-75B 9mm
Ruger Mark II
CVA Magnum black powder rifle
Remington 700 Sendero II in 300 WM
Keltec PF9
Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt
RIA 1911 Bright Nickel .45 ACP
Enfield No. 1 Mark III*
Vz54/91
Vz52
Model of 1917 Enfield
Fazakerly No. 4 Mk I South African issued
Lithgow No. 1 Mk. III
Vz-24
Ishapore 2a
Enfield No.1 Mk III Republic of Ireland issued

Next Firearm:
Who am I kidding

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby Utah » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:48:52

jrswanson1 wrote:Back to the original topic. Yes, I'm over 21. I have an old SxS that I got from a friend's father. Half of the barrel is rusted. I would like to cut it down past the rust, which would make the barrels 10" long. And I'd like to cut the stock off to the pistol grip. Is it safe to assume that doing so will be okay as long as I pay the $200 stamp? This is really confusing. I don't care what it's called, I'm basically asking if I pay the $200, can I make this a double-barreled pistol? Thanks.

Jim


You will not be making a double barreled pistol since it started life as a shotgun. To answer your question in the most basic of terms...yes. However there's a lot of other stuff that has to happen.
"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing will begin in five minutes."
(Ronald Reagan 11 August 1984)


User avatar
Utah
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:10:02

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby Diomed » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:53:40

jrswanson1 wrote:B Is it safe to assume that doing so will be okay as long as I pay the $200 stamp? This is really confusing. I don't care what it's called, I'm basically asking if I pay the $200, can I make this a double-barreled pistol? Thanks.

The short answer is that yes, you can do that.

The longer answer is that you can do it once you have applied for and received permission to do so. Depending on the breaks it can take anywhere from six weeks to six months. When you get your form back with a nice green stamp on it, you can slice 'n' dice on that gun to your heart's content. You can't make it into a pistol as such, but you can configure it like a pistol (this is called a "weapon made from a shotgun"). Looks like this:

Image

I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the laws and procedures, as owning a NFA weapon is not like owning a regular firearm. subguns.com, sturmgewehr.com, and nfatalk.org are good places to listen and learn, or ask questions (though the first two may not be overly helpful to a newbie).


User avatar
Diomed
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 1891
Joined: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:28:14
Location: Central VA
First Name: Nah

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby jrswanson1 » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:29:53

Utah and Diomed, thanks for the info. I'm seriously going to do this. Can I do this using a trust? I'm also going to do an SBR and possibly get a can or three, and I will probably be moving at the start of next year. Thanks!

Jim


User avatar
jrswanson1
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:23:03
Location: Woodbridge
First Name: Jim

My Arsenal:
3 AR-15s
CETME
Rem 700 CDL 7mm-08
Win 94 .45 Colt
Ruger Mini-14 .223
Kel Tec Sub2000 9mm
Rem 870 Express Super Mag
Rem 11-87P
Spanish SxS 12 Gauge
ParaOrdnance P16-40 .40 S&W
CZ-75B 9mm
Ruger Mark II
CVA Magnum black powder rifle
Remington 700 Sendero II in 300 WM
Keltec PF9
Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt
RIA 1911 Bright Nickel .45 ACP
Enfield No. 1 Mark III*
Vz54/91
Vz52
Model of 1917 Enfield
Fazakerly No. 4 Mk I South African issued
Lithgow No. 1 Mk. III
Vz-24
Ishapore 2a
Enfield No.1 Mk III Republic of Ireland issued

Next Firearm:
Who am I kidding

Re: Creation of a Short Barrel Shotgun

Postby gunderwood » Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:57:43

jrswanson1 wrote:Utah and Diomed, thanks for the info. I'm seriously going to do this. Can I do this using a trust? I'm also going to do an SBR and possibly get a can or three, and I will probably be moving at the start of next year. Thanks!

Jim

IMHO, a trust is the preferred way. I've done several NFAs in a trust.
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.


User avatar
gunderwood
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
 
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:28:34

Next


ads

Return to Question and Answer

Who is online

Registered users: 0ne5hot, AppleaDay, Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Jamie, mamabearCali, mpolans, Nat, pratt, ShotgunBlast, WRW, Yahoo [Bot]

Shop Here!
Help support VGOF!


AIG Tactical - Do it now!
Red Stitch Tactical