CHP Questions

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CHP Questions

Postby guessflynn » Wed, 11 Feb 2015 16:29:56

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum, so figured I'd start off asking a few questions. I promise, I've searched the forum for about a day to try not to miss the answer to questions I may have.

I've recently just received my CHP. I know I can't carry in areas that have been specifically outlined by the law (airports, court houses, schools besides in your car, private property that restricts it, etc.), so, outside of those requirements specifically listed, can you carry armed essentially anywhere else?

And for in a car, I see everyone saying just "get a chp it'll make it easier". Do I basically have the right to carry concealed in a car, without having to separate gun from ammo?

Final question. Is there anything specific I need to know to prevent myself from getting in legal trouble? Obviously besides what was listed above, is there something that's "common sense" to you all who have been carrying concealed for a while that a new guy with a chp might not know? Basically, I'm just trying to make sure I'm not ignorant of something that'll get me in trouble. I've reviewed the laws online (from here http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm) and I didn't know if there was something that was just "don't do this".

Sorry if it's long, or newish to ask. Just want to make sure I'm doing this right.

Thanks for your time.


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby Chasbo00 » Wed, 11 Feb 2015 17:22:34

I like to read the laws themselves rather than someone's take on what they are. I use this search tool: https://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm

To start out, just enter firearm and follow the links. You can get more specific if you have a particular area of interest.

Keep in mind that laws, in general, tell you what you cannot do, not what you can do. When a law tells you specifically what you can do, it's usually an exception to something that you generally can't do. For example, your CHP is an exception to carrying a concealed handgun in public which is in general illegal in Virginia.
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Re: CHP Questions

Postby MarcSpaz » Wed, 11 Feb 2015 18:21:50

I'm not a lawyer... so there's no charge for my advice. LOL

guessflynn wrote:Hi there,

I'm new to the forum, so figured I'd start off asking a few questions. I promise, I've searched the forum for about a day to try not to miss the answer to questions I may have.


Welcome! Glad you made it over. I hope you find the group welcoming and the forum helpful.

guessflynn wrote:I've recently just received my CHP. I know I can't carry in areas that have been specifically outlined by the law (airports, court houses, schools besides in your car, private property that restricts it, etc.), so, outside of those requirements specifically listed, can you carry armed essentially anywhere else?


Congrats on the permit. Though not needed, it makes life WAY easier and you get some special privileges that don't apply to people carrying without one.

My answer to this question may or may not upset some folks and or possibly get you in trouble. Unless you are one of the 8 people in DC with a CHP, there is only one wildcard when it comes to location restrictions... "No Weapons" or "No Firearms" signs.

"No Weapons" signs DO carry the force of law. If you carry a weapon in a location where the property owner restricts it, you are breaking the law. Here's where I get you in trouble. LOL. Its not a firearms law; its a trespassing charge and that is only assuming they call the police instead of asking you to leave.

Another little tid bit... if they don't have signs at every entrance stating that no weapons are allowed, you will very likely be excused from the trespassing charge unless the owner (or legal representative of the owner) tells you to leave and you don't. And that is because you entered the building at an entry point with no sign posted. You didn't know it was restricted by the owner.

I typically don't go places or do business with companies that don't support my right to protect myself, but there are many companies that have a "no weapons" policy that's mostly a feel-good measure, and they don't enforce it unless you are being a flagrant about it. I just CC in those places and keep my mouth shut.

guessflynn wrote:And for in a car, I see everyone saying just "get a chp it'll make it easier". Do I basically have the right to carry concealed in a car, without having to separate gun from ammo?


The right to carry is the right to carry. Even if you did not have a CHP, you do not have to separate a handgun and its ammo simply because you are in a vehicle. If the handgun is secured on your hip (or wherever your holster is), in your center console or glove box, loaded and out of sight, CHP or not, you are not breaking the law. For reasons such as weapon retention in an accident, to help prevent accidental discharge, theft and many other reasons, the State released and official opinion that those 3 carry locations in your vehicle are legal.

Now... long arms are another story. Shoulder fired weapons need to be unloaded and securely wrapped or cased during transport. CHP's do not have any impact on concealment laws for any other weapons, only handguns.

guessflynn wrote:Final question. Is there anything specific I need to know to prevent myself from getting in legal trouble? Obviously besides what was listed above, is there something that's "common sense" to you all who have been carrying concealed for a while that a new guy with a chp might not know? Basically, I'm just trying to make sure I'm not ignorant of something that'll get me in trouble. I've reviewed the laws online (from here http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm) and I didn't know if there was something that was just "don't do this".


My best piece of advice... put it in your holster, leave it covered, and don't mess with it. Don't show it to people. Don't touch it unless you have to defend yourself or others from gross bodily injury or death.

I moved to VA from Rhode Island. Guns are major taboo up there. Even though I owned weapons and had a carry permit for some time, I never, ever, ever let anyone know I was carrying or even owned weapons. I was dating my (now) wife for half a year before I told her.

When I move to VA and heard about OC and what a gun friendly state it was, I thought handling weapons in public would be okay. I made the mistake of publicly handling a weapon to show a friend and the social backlash was pretty darn bad. It took months to die down and I lost several friends over it due to public opinion.

Also, my friend was at a company picnic. A coworker of his did the same thing I did... but instead of public ridicule, someone called the cops and he got arrested for brandishing. Evidently, brandishing isn't based on your intent, but how others interpret your actions. That guy is still in a legal battle and is facing jail time.

guessflynn wrote:Sorry if it's long, or newish to ask. Just want to make sure I'm doing this right.

Thanks for your time.


Thanks for taking the time to look into this stuff and wanting to do things right. All questions are welcome. No apologizes are ever needed for asking a question. My advice isn't perfect and based on my experiences, but hopefully you will find it helpful.


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby OakRidgeStars » Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:47:10

Lots of good information can be found in the "Carrying Your Firearm" forum as well.

carrying/


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby Viper21 » Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:18:58

Some good advice from MarcSpaz imo.

The thing that stands out to me....... what Marc talked about when he said "brandishing". A ton of grief can be had for brandishing. Like stated, best policy is to leave it alone. Difficult at first, because it's "new" to you. However, after awhile, it's just part of your routine.

Even in this gun friendly state, there are still plenty of people who are anti-gun, anti-carry, etc. Suck to have one of those people "interpret" your simple action of adjusting your weapon, as threatening. Sounds ridiculous but, Im sure possible in their mind anyways.

Just last fall, my son & I were heading to one of our hunting spots on public land. VA DGIF land to be exact. Funny thing is.... the sign at the entrance says, "Hunter Access Trail". Well, as we pull in, we notice a vehicle parked just outside the entrance that looked out of place... high end mini-suv, couple of Obama stickers on it. Well, a few hundred yards into the road..... there is this middle aged couple, & their teenage daughter, somewhat .....for lack of a better word, frolicking around in this creek. Daughter was wearing an all black winter coat, as was the father. Mom was wearing a brown suede overcoat. We of course were sporting our normal digs with home depot orange vests, & my son was holding his .308 rifle (unloaded of course). I couldn't help it. I stopped as they were right there on the side of the road.... rolled the window down...... the woman rolled her eyes, & let out an exasperation....lol. She looked genuinely irritated that she had to actually talk to these rednecks :hysterical: When she approached my truck, & peered in..... she was noticeably nervous. I greeted them with a smile, THEN asked them if they knew they were in an active hunting area, & it was actually deer & bear season right now..?!?!?!? She literally had no idea. I went on to explain that their attire, in THIS area, DURING an active hunting day was very dangerous. She simply said okay.... & backed away from my vehicle..... we went on.

My point is... well, besides sharing a ridiculous story, they were absolutely clueless. All 3 of em. One of them could've easily been shot by an over zealous hunter. Besides the obvious disgust she felt for us.... it was also apparent she was intimidated by the site of my son holding a rifle. Now imagine that same woman, in the same coffee shop as you or me, & while reaching for change, or your cell phone, she sees your carry piece...... guarantee her reaction won't be nothing. Even though not an intentional brandishing, her irrational fear & disapproval could get you in hot water, without intent. The fact that what you are doing is legal, doesn't matter to those type of people, & again..... they ARE among us. Even out in places they don't normally frequent.......


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby guessflynn » Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:24:07

Awesome, thanks for all the input everyone. I appreciate it!


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby GettingOld » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:09:43

MarcSpaz wrote:I'm not a lawyer... so there's no charge for my advice. LOL

"No Weapons" signs DO carry the force of law.


I'm not an attorney either so ...

It's my understanding that signs do NOT carry the force of law in Virginia. It only becomes tresspassing if you are asked to leave and you refuse.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf
Page 8
"... “No Firearm”
signs in Virginia have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically
mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. ..."
""


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:03:14

I would recommend some light reading. The code of Va seems to say that if a sign is posted and youviolate that sign, its trespassing, it's a Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/titl ... n18.2-119/

I'm on my phone or I would find some other links too.


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby SHMIV » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:01:23

If the sign is posted, avoid doing business with that establishment. That way, you don't leave yourself vulnerable, and you respect the right of the business to make foolish decisions.

My general assumption is that such a sign indicates tbat my business and my presence is undesired, and I don't much care to be in a place at which I am unwelcome.

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Re: CHP Questions

Postby ProShooter » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:19:20

MarcSpaz wrote:I would recommend some light reading. The code of Va seems to say that if a sign is posted and you violate that sign, its trespassing, it's a Class 1 misdemeanor.

.


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby GettingOld » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:21:04

MarcSpaz wrote:I would recommend some light reading. The code of Va seems to say that if a sign is posted and youviolate that sign, its trespassing, it's a Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/titl ... n18.2-119/

I'm on my phone or I would find some other links too.


I don't think that applies to a No Guns Sign, but I'm not an attorney.


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:54:13

I searched the entire online database and did not find an exemption for any specific prohibitions related to firearms.


I did find this...
§ 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor.

The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are:

(a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.


Also, the post you quoted has a link to the law. That statute says "If any person without authority of law" trespasses. In addition, VA Code § 18.2-308.01. part C says
The granting of a concealed handgun permit... shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by... the owner of private property.
This laws specifically says carrying of firearms, even with a permit, is not exempt from trespass laws.

Again... not a lawyer, but the code seems pretty straight forward and I don't want to risk going to jail by publicly defying the laws of the Common Wealth. If I am misunderstanding the law... I would prefer a lawyer, judge or States Attorney advise me as so before I would publicly encourage such actions.


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Re: CHP Questions

Postby WRW » Tue, 16 Feb 2016 00:56:56

There is some confusion caused by a case ruling on trespass. In the "IMPORTANT STATE CARRY RESTRICTIONS" here: http://www.virginia1774.org/Page1.html
#3 describes the necessity of proof that signage was seen. If an agent of the property owner points out the sign, then at that point there is no defense of ignorance from that point forward.

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Re: CHP Questions

Postby wittmeba » Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:50:53

These links should help. Also, be careful crossing any state borders. Most surrounding states are very gun friendly with the exception of Maryland << and it is bad news.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_StateLaws.shtm


There are apps that you can download to your smart phone - CCW Concealed Carry 50 states and Legal Heat. I have both and prefer CCW CC 50 states: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ryan.ccw

We do DLR Exchange (PU and Deliver vehicles) for a local dealer and I use it as much for when it is required to inform an officer if we should get stopped. $1.99 might save you a lot of worry.

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http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-10- ... led-carry/
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/top-5-sma ... un-owners/

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