Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/ ... _tear.html

What is the point of having a fourth amendment if the government can "waive" your rights anytime it chooses to. When I was a child if an agent of the government wanted to search your body, your bags or your house they had to have a warrant, or at minimum probable cause, and if they did not have that it was an illegal search and they were liable for damages and criminal charges. First it was "don't like the metal detectors--don't fly", then it was don't like the strip searches/molestations--don't fly, they used the bad line that because you were in an airport you consented to having your breasts felt and private areas groped and/or having your clothing removed digitally or even by hand. Now they are showing up in bus stations around the country, and at major sporting events.

So where will the TSA show up next with their probing fingers and strip search machines? Maybe at your local mall. These are the feds do they know local firearm law--I doubt it. So when you go to a mall that is not posted and you are concealed carrying and they coerce you into a pat down and find your sidearm what is going to happen then? Remember these are the same guys that attempted to make a disabled child walk through a scanner, and have stolen thousands of items from passengers, and have assaulted countless people. Do you trust them to know the law in your area?

Shameful.

mamabearCali wrote:So where will the TSA show up next with their probing fingers and strip search machines? Maybe at your local mall. These are the feds do they know local firearm law--I doubt it. So when you go to a mall that is not posted and you are concealed carrying and they coerce you into a pat down and find your sidearm what is going to happen then? Remember these are the same guys that attempted to make a disabled child walk through a scanner, and have stolen thousands of items from passengers, and have assaulted countless people. Do you trust them to know the law in your area?

Do I trust them to know the law? NO! These people ARE NOT LEO's! If I am in a mall (or any other place for that matter), that is not posted and they request a pat down of my person, I will politely refuse. The most that they can do at that point is to detain me (read basically a citizen's arrest) until the real LEO's arrive.

The real LEO will know local laws, and know that they need a reasonable articulate suspicion to proceed.

Yarddawg wrote:
Do I trust them to know the law? NO! These people ARE NOT LEO's! If I am in a mall (or any other place for that matter), that is not posted and they request a pat down of my person, I will politely refuse. The most that they can do at that point is to detain me (read basically a citizen's arrest) until the real LEO's arrive.

The real LEO will know local laws, and know that they need a reasonable articulate suspicion to proceed.

I hope local LEO's will know the law and not say something stupid like "these guys are with the Federal gov't so I don't know." I also don't have much confidence that all they would do is simple hold you in one spot. I have seen too many video's of the TSA throwing people around like rag dolls and then later having to pay out a pittance (2-4K) in restitution when in any other situation they would have been charged with assault. This whole thing really really worries me, and the fact that our congressmen/state representative think it is just dandy is even more of a concern.

Oh but there are so many citizens er uh sheeple out there that say "oh, if this keeps us safe then I'm all for it..." I havent had one of these TSA grope sessions and no harm has come to me or my family.

Screw em all I say.....

NO MORE.....

mamabearCali wrote:I hope local LEO's will know the law and not say something stupid like "these guys are with the Federal gov't so I don't know." I also don't have much confidence that all they would do is simple hold you in one spot. I have seen too many video's of the TSA throwing people around like rag dolls and then later having to pay out a pittance (2-4K) in restitution when in any other situation they would have been charged with assault. This whole thing really really worries me, and the fact that our congressmen/state representative think it is just dandy is even more of a concern.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the TSA agents might not try something stupid. If they do, I believe that I am well within my rights to defend myself. I, for one, will not let them just throw me around. I throw back!

If I saw this happening to a lady, such as yourself, I would step in as well. I may not have Dem's manners, but I will not idly stand by while a lady and/or her children are being abused by some Barney Fife wannabe!

Yarddawg wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:I hope local LEO's will know the law and not say something stupid like "these guys are with the Federal gov't so I don't know." I also don't have much confidence that all they would do is simple hold you in one spot. I have seen too many video's of the TSA throwing people around like rag dolls and then later having to pay out a pittance (2-4K) in restitution when in any other situation they would have been charged with assault. This whole thing really really worries me, and the fact that our congressmen/state representative think it is just dandy is even more of a concern.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the TSA agents might not try something stupid. If they do, I believe that I am well within my rights to defend myself. I, for one, will not let them just throw me around. I throw back!

If I saw this happening to a lady, such as yourself, I would step in as well. I may not have Dem's manners, but I will not idly stand by while a lady and/or her children are being abused by some Barney Fife wannabe!

That's what that guy in Indiana thought when he tried to prevent unlawful (aka criminal) entry into his home. He's in jail now. Don't get me wrong, on principle I agree, but practically they are going to screw you or I over big time and make a nice pension while doing so.

Aaaanyway, putting in TSA checkpoints at bus stations is just part of the long-term plan of eliminating freedom of movement. Checkpoints at airports, train stations, bus stations, and eventually at state borders. You'll have to have your Real ID internal passport and probably a travel authorization of some sort. The nice thing about expensive gasoline and tires is that the numbers of road travellers will be reduced making the workload on the staatzpoleizi manning the road checkpoints easier: rail will make a comeback!

Sounds like Brave new World ( The Novel) don;t it?? I;m in agreemnet with DK...Screw em All ,, I can go without whatever venue they decide to set up in. More people need to learn a simple one syllable word ..NO! It;s something that bears watching very closely or it will steamroll right over the country before 2/3 of the people knew it hit them

Spence, the problem is that they arent steamrolling...momentum has increased under the current administration but I believe the strategy is slow and methodical encroachment supported by the "keeping America safe" argument...kinda like one of them slow working viruses that do their work for years before symptoms emerge and then its too late...

Sort of like boiling the frog....

Put them in cold water.. turn on the heat a little at a time!

Well either slow and steady or a little quicker ,one way to help deter it is to not use the venues they are setting up in. NO can go a long way and actually helps some people realize they can do without something...You're correct DK about that safety aspect,,,The sheeple fall for that all the time... Patriot Act and other abuses in the name of safety,war on drugs,and others are a few more. It's gonna take a lot more than elections to fix this,,, As long as the current group (R+D)'s are in power the expansion of government and its more useless stye of employees will continue unchecked,,,,

Diomed wrote:Aaaanyway, putting in TSA checkpoints at bus stations is just part of the long-term plan of eliminating freedom of movement. Checkpoints at airports, train stations, bus stations, and eventually at state borders. You'll have to have your Real ID internal passport and probably a travel authorization of some sort. The nice thing about expensive gasoline and tires is that the numbers of road travellers will be reduced making the workload on the staatzpoleizi manning the road checkpoints easier: rail will make a comeback!

Wait! Isn't that one of the "differences" we claimed illustrated "freedom" during the cold war? You know, show your papers in the USSR?

Our founder revolted over much less than this. I am not calling for revolt--just pointing out that we are a bit lily-livered in comparison to our proud forefathers. TX seems to be leading the way (or they are trying to anyway), they are trying to pass a bill making the scanners/patdowns without probable cause a misdemeanor (like sexual assault was not already illegal). Probably too much to hope that VA will follow their lead.

This source gives even more insight into what the TSA is doing in these VIPR stops (quite a coincidence that vipers are deadly poisonous snakes that if they bite you can cause incredible damage). Don't bother securing the border. We can just randomly stop citizens anywhere any time and require them to hand us their papers and assume the position for a prison pat down.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/tsa ... ems-yearly

gunderwood wrote:Wait! Isn't that one of the "differences" we claimed illustrated "freedom" during the cold war? You know, show your papers in the USSR?

Funny how that turned out, huh?

mamabearCali wrote:Our founder revolted over much less than this. I am not calling for revolt--just pointing out that we are a bit lily-livered in comparison to our proud forefathers. TX seems to be leading the way (or they are trying to anyway), they are trying to pass a bill making the scanners/patdowns without probable cause a misdemeanor (like sexual assault was not already illegal). Probably too much to hope that VA will follow their lead.

Yes most are lilly livered because we are so comfortable and if it dont affect me directly then why should I care...Justice dept ran by Eric "Have You Seen My Chin" Holder filed suit against TX...not sure yet about the outcome but I'd like to see TX stand their ground...this is ridiculous....

So, the TSA was born from 9/11 but the scanners and pat downs were a result of the shoe and underwear bomber. Both cases are to me highly irregular. Here we have 2 terrorists in full view of passengers and crew attempting to light "bombs" in their shoe and underwear. A real terrorists intent on blowing up the aircraft would have waited until cruising altitude and then slunk off the the bathroom. Both times both were apprehended apparently without much struggle but much fanfare.

I have several questions...

1. Were they really terrorists
2. Who sent them
3. Were the bombs even real
4. Where are they now
5. Where was all the media hype and hoopla

Smells very fishy to me and highly irregular. What better way to set up the American people....

3 scenarios with a few variations

1. 2 bumbling idiot twits...not likely and in cases like this I do not believe in coincidence...a shoe bomber and an underwear bomber both attempting to blow up air liners in plain view of everyone...too much coincidence for me

2. Sent by the terrorists with explicit instructions which they followed to the letter...purpose...throw America into frenzied security of airlines and draw focus from other areas

3. Sent by "someone else" with the intent of growing the TSA and selling a bunch of body scanners thus killing several birds with one 2 twits...sell a bunch of body scanners, back door deals, power, control over the American public...

Call me paranoid...just trying to think through the various scenarios like UNCLE taught me...

Well the more we learn about "Fast and Furious" the more one of these possibiities could exist. on this situation.. Just the little amount of info that has surfaced has shown the lengths some gubmint agencies will go to promote their idiocy....Rules? They apparently have exempted themselves from them..

Precisely! The government seems to be in a race to control as much of it's citizens' lives as possible. While at the same time depriving them of any way to fight back against such encroachment. It is really rather scary to watch, from the FDA going after Amish dairy farmers to the Indiana decision requiring people to submit to illegal searches by the police to the TSA to the Fast and Furious sting, to the healthcare law it is all looking rather bleak and scary.

As someone who just went thru TSA twice in the past 6 days. The only two things that irritated me were taking EVERYTHING out of my pockets, and REMOVING MY SHOES!? (shakes head)

However, they were polite, and even humor-filled at one point.

When they found my pocket flashlight, the TSA agent goes, "WHEW! Thought you were carrying lipstick for a second."

I think they realize that they're views as gigantic pains in the keister, and some TSA Agents are a tad over-zealous. Like the ones testing soft drinks that were purchases in the concourse for "alternative substances"

Um Hello!?!? You cannot carry a soft drink thru security, so how the hell do you think it got in her hand? She bought it in the concourse!

Overall though, I think they're trying to enforce whatever rules are put down upon them. So if we want to CHANGE these procedures, and rules, we need to REALLY press our lawmakers!