Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

usafforwardcommand wrote:If you wore a uniform, unless you were drafted you wore it to guarantee our freedoms in this country.

Funny, when we were in basic training the entire company had to stand up and, an one by one state in a sentence or two "why we are here", you know, why'd we enlist.

Not one living soul had your reason.

College money was the #1 answer by far, second pace was employment.

A few had to choose the Army or jail, the odd homeless or was about to be homeless person looking for three hots and a cot, and a few miscellaneous answers....one had to enlist to inherit his dads business, some needed help paying child support, etc.

But I do not exaggerate when say zero had your answer. I was 17 when I joined in 2000, too young for the draft. So no one enlisted for the cheeseburgers, sorry.

I must say that alot of folks that have served got a free pass from me...Kreutz is a huge exception....it honestly makes me stop and think that there might actually be other people out there who actually put on a uniform, swore the oath, and yet are socialists...oh wait, I work with some...

Its utterly amazing how those so eager to fight the socialist menace have no damned idea what it is.

I simply believe in a mix of public and private enterprise; if you want to pay 90 different tolls to get to Grandmas on privately owned roads, thats great.

I'd rather We the People collectively own the facets of our economy that affects We the People as a whole; infrastructure, utilities, defense, banks(oh how I'd love to see our banks nationalized), and public health.

Beyond that I see little need for government intervention in daily life excepting basic laws for the general welfare. And speaking for welfare, I genuinely do think we collectively should support those cannot support themselves, the typical orphans, widows, truly disabled. As far as those who choose not to work-let them starve.

Dude, you don't get it. It' that whole gov't force thing. You really are a socialist, aren't you?

Well, yes. But irregardless, last I checked, government forces us to do alot of things. Thats why we make them. They force me to drive a set speed, pay certain taxes, carry auto insurance, only buy certain meds with a prescription, etc etc etc. All are backed by negative reinforcement-financial penalties and/or jail.

I know in anarchist tea-Party Town the idea is we must be freeeeeee as the birds, but, will never happen. Governments and laws are as old as we are.

I am in earnest here... Help me to understand how you can trust the government more than you can trust yourself for your own self determination.

Easy. I want healthier food. If the government forces all food to be healthier, I now have more selection and more choice. Plus we all kind of win as a society, its going to get the point everyone is hypertensive and/or diabetic soon.

I think that folks who believe this feel that it's really to be applied to others, but not for themselves... until they get bit on the a** by it... "Wait, I didn't mean ME..."

Nope. I want less sodium in all my crackers, less sugar in my cereals, and that poison high fructose corn syrup in none of it. Fun fact: You can always add salt or sugar to your own food (FREEDOM FOR DIABETES!) after the fact you know?

Kreutz - the point is simply this and obviously something you either dont understand or care about -- if we allow government to interfere and control what we eat what will they control next...its all about limits...this next part may seem silly and obvious but it must be stated...it must stop somewhere or it will never end...government control will continue until far past even something george orwell could have never imagined...

Well kreutz, I joined the air force in 1989 and I was 17 as well. We went around stating why we were there and we got all different walks of life then too. As you know, my statement about the cheeseburger was about personal freedom to do what we want and when we want. You can feel free to drop the sarcasim now. I didn't join to ensure a cheesburger on every table, nor did I join to ensure socialism had a place to call home. I understand your wants of less salt, sugar and trans fats. Become a vegan and you can have the. "Keys to simplicity and edibles heaven". Other than that, you and the gov't control freaks can keep your damn hands off my pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. Even if its as simple as a fat ridden, salt driven, fructose engulfed burger and fries. Libert has a start button and a off button. There is no slow down mode! Good day.

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zephyp wrote:Kreutz - the point is simply this and obviously something you either dont understand or care about -- if we allow government to interfere and control what we eat what will they control next...its all about limits...this next part may seem silly and obvious but it must be stated...it must stop somewhere or it will never end...government control will continue until far past even something george orwell could have never imagined...

Well, the FDA showed up for a reason.



Don't see that on store shelves anymore. Other makers promoted it gives the skin a "healthy glow". Truth in advertising of a sorts I guess.

Government apparently can tell us what we can or can't eat and drink.

George Orwell was a fervent socialist(and incidentally a personal hero of mine-I recommend Keep the Aspidistra Flying), funny you mention him as a defender of liberty....how can a socialist like him even know the concept?

For some years past I have managed to make the capitalist class pay me several pounds a week for writing books against capitalism. But I do not delude myself that this state of affairs is going to last forever ... the only régime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist régime. If Fascism triumphs I am finished as a writer – that is to say, finished in my only effective capacity. That of itself would be a sufficient reason for joining a Socialist party.

The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell Volume 1 – An Age Like This 1945–1950 p.373 (Penguin)

Kreutz wrote:[
George Orwell was a fervent socialist(and incidentally a personal hero of mine-I recommend Keep the Aspidistra Flying), funny you mention him as a defender of liberty....how can a socialist like him even know the concept?

Typical liberal...I never mentioned him as a defender of liberty nor did I imply or infer that...here what I said twit..."...government control will continue until far past even something george orwell could have never imagined..."

I merely referred to his book 1984 with his story about government control...

Yeah the FDA was created for a purpose just like the DOE...their mission: get us off foreign oil dependency...their current mission is a far cry from that and we are more dependent on foreign oil than ever.....

On the government doing SO much better than common citizens in feeding children. It should be pointed out that most obese children are in public schools (as most children are these days). They receive at least one often two meals a day courtesy of the federal guidelines for feeding children. So if the children are obese, and they spend 8 or 9 of their waking hours in government care and are receiving 2 government meals a day (breakfast and lunch) perhaps we should be looking the government rules for physical activity (play time) and nutrition as at least being 2/3 at fault. Just saying--if we want to talk about looking at the facts of a child situation lets look at them and realize in whose care the child is 75% of the time.

Hey mamabear, all valid points but IMHO the biggest argument against federal intervention is simply that what OUR children or us eat or dont is NONE of their business...

Zephyp I 100% agree with you.

I just wanted to point out that if we are going to assign blame for a child's obesity (which is a multifaceted condition with many causes) we ought to look at the whole picture not just what mom is serving at home.

mamabearCali wrote:Zephyp I 100% agree with you.

I just wanted to point out that if we are going to assign blame for a child's obesity (which is a multifaceted condition with many causes) we ought to look at the whole picture not just what mom is serving at home.