Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

[jim100]

This thread is for dems4gun to categorically list his beliefs so everybody can have a "civil", "polite", and "neighborly" discussion about the merits of his beliefs.

I would ask that everybody please refrain from saying the words liberal, democrat, communist, Marxist, and socialist. I would also like everybody to please not say any denigrating things about the current president, his family, his administration, his party, and finally dems4guns.

[jsharlan]

I like pie.

[Daholt757]

obama's a great president. the unemployment rate has steadily been going down. our nations problems when he came into office will not dissapear over night. he's not perfect but hey, reagan was also a major advocate of HUGE amounts of government spending. We're also finally pulling out of a pointless war in Iraq and turning up the heat where we should have been all along, afganistan. I don't much like government healthcare either but I feels thats a subject too many people get hung up on. So many people these days stop debatin and just stay hatin

[Palladin]

pie, pie, me oh my!


only two kinds of pie I like -

Hot pie and cold pie...

[TheGodfather]

I'm a cobbler guy myself. Peach cobbler...

[VBshooter]

[OakRidgeStars]

Beer and pie... Oh my...

[OleMan]

This thread is for dems4gun to categorically list his beliefs so everybody can have a "civil", "polite", and "neighborly" discussion about the merits of his beliefs.

I would ask that everybody please refrain from saying the words liberal, democrat, communist, Marxist, and socialist. I would also like everybody to please not say any denigrating things about the current president, his family, his administration, his party, and finally dems4guns.

Guess this means that all respondents get to make up the rules as the "reasonable" discussions progress. My high school civics teacher, Mr. Mancuso (God rest his good and solid American soul), would have a field day here (like Gunderwood) with dems4guns - Mr. Mancuso was a NCAA champion gymnast and debater, coach of the school debate team, and knew the Constitution, semantics and rules of debate from all angles.



Oleman

[zephyp]

obama's a great president. the unemployment rate has steadily been going down. our nations problems when he came into office will not dissapear over night. he's not perfect but hey, reagan was also a major advocate of HUGE amounts of government spending. We're also finally pulling out of a pointless war in Iraq and turning up the heat where we should have been all along, afganistan. I don't much like government healthcare either but I feels thats a subject too many people get hung up on. So many people these days stop debatin and just stay hatin

Wow...and it looks like you are a soldier...man if I were you I'd be grabbin some of that and beer and just relax...if you get bored you always review your oath...that part about the Constitution is kinda important...btw and quite seriously -- thank you for your service...I drive by Arlington cemetery a couple times each day and pray that the lives of our heroes are not shed in vain...

[Tweaker]

"I would ask that everybody please refrain from saying the words liberal, democrat,"

Is this like McCain refusing to say Hussein?

IT...IS...HIS...NAME!?!

[dems4guns]

Sorry, didn't notice this new topic about ME until now.
Thanks for laying out the expectation of decorum.

Off to work now, but will get back with my list.
Dems4Guns

[allingeneral]

Moving this to politics since the thread will undoubtedly "go there".

[gunderwood]

Moving this to politics since the thread will undoubtedly "go there".

Yea of little faith...or is it your great wisdom?

[dems4guns]

Here is some stuff to shoot at: Hollow points don't work here.
I am very liberal when it comes to social issues:
- Abortion should remain legal and available;
- Gays should have equal rights, and civil unions but not marriage;
- Women should have equal rights and equal pay;
- Minorities should have equal rights as long as they are citizens;
- We should spend some of our tax money to care for the poor and the disabled and the sick;
- legalization of marijuana and decriminalization of drugs and administration of drug courts;
- legalization and regulation of prostitution;
- Deregulation of many prescription drugs for over the counter sales;
- Assistance to parents who are poor until they can get a job;
- etc.

And, on economic and safety and commerce issues, the government has a large role to play:
- Creating a fair and competitive marketplace;
- Preventing fraud and financial abuse;
- Keeping the financial systems stable;
- Regulating the safety and availability of products;
- Collecting duties;
- Ensuring the flow of international commerce;
- Ensuring the availability and affordability of health insurance and car insurance and home insurance and business insurance;
- Disaster assistance;
- Financial assistance to failed institutions that are essential to our economy;
- Preventing monopolies and promoting anti-trust;
- Securing the banking systems;
- Assisting our veterans;
- Funding our educational systems;
- Promoting public health policies;
- Prevention of disease and epidemics;

And, on Security the governement has a large role to play:
- Protecting our borders;
- Preventing illegal immigration;
- Preventing importation of illegal guns and WMD's;
- Protecting our commercial naval vessels from Piracy;
- Preventing the spread of terrorism against the US and our allies;

And, on rights:
- Nothing wrong with current background check system;
-Non-violent felons should not be restricted from possessing, purchasing or owning firearms;
- Anything above a machine gun or grenade should be speciallly authorized like it is with NFA weapons;
- Our right to assemble should be returned to the original intent instead of being strangled through governmnent permits;
- Our right to free speech should include the ability to operate broadcast radio stations that don't interfere with mainstream broadcasters;

On Firearms I am in favor of liberalizing gun laws to make them more reasonable for ordinary citizens to purchase, own, transport, carry and use them (when justified). Concealed Carry should be available to all, except for minors, and first year college students, and violent felons and mentally unstable people and people who have made public or private threats of violence. And, I have other liberal and democratic friends that feel the same way.

Also, most of my Democratic friends want illegal immigration stopped and illegals sent home and discouraged from coming back. In fact, the Obama administration has increased the number of illegals returned over George Bush's administration.

These are traditionally conservative positions, but there is no reason that they can't coexist with our liberal positions.

My main point here is to try and realize that we are all individuals and every one of us has a slightly different view. We only organize into parties because that is how the system developed over time and the structure we have inherited. But that doesn't make us all alike.

On Obama, I would give him a grade of B- across the board, an A+ on being Commander in Chief, a C- on the economy, a C- on fixing wall street, a B on the Medical Insurance Legislation, and an A+ on public speeches and acting as the leader of our country. I would give him a C on working with Congress, but a A on operating the government agencies. His biggest weakness is being too collegial and willing to compromise, and not being more aggressive with political enemies. His biggest strength is his character and intelligence and speaking abilities, and ability to delgate to his teams.

Thanks in advance for maintaining decorum on this thread, as I will do the same.
Thanks,
Dems4Guns

[OakRidgeStars]

Did someone mention pie?

[Taggure]

My My I wonder how this Thread will turn out?

[allingeneral]

Alright - I'll take a whack at a few of these... My comments after ++

Here is some stuff to shoot at: Hollow points don't work here.
I am very liberal when it comes to social issues:
++ I am not.

- Abortion should remain legal and available;
++ I'm not for it, but if someone else wants to put themselves through the anguish of killing their own child, then let them eat cake!

- Gays should have equal rights, and civil unions but not marriage;
++ Gays are just people - they don't deserve any special "Rights". They give up the right to marriage by being gay.

- Women should have equal rights and equal pay;
++ I agree - and for the most part, I think this playing field is pretty level these days.

- Minorities should have equal rights as long as they are citizens;
++ Again - these days, I think the playing field is pretty level. Equal right, I have no problem with - a bunch of social programs that give away freebies to those who want to play the "I'm disadvantaged card" is getting old.

- We should spend some of our tax money to care for the poor and the disabled and the sick;
++ If it is a bona-fide illness or disability, then yes. However, there is a lot of corruption, waste, fraud and abuse in this system that needs to be addressed in order to bring down costs.

- legalization of marijuana and decriminalization of drugs and administration of drug courts;
++ I have no problem with this. Legalizing drugs isn't going to cause me to get high, and I hope that most normal people feel the same way.

- legalization and regulation of prostitution;
++ Ugh - really?

- Deregulation of many prescription drugs for over the counter sales;
++ How about SOME prescription drugs. There are a lot of them that should be overseen by a doctor to ensure that there are no adverse reactions or conflicts with another drug that you're taking.

- Assistance to parents who are poor until they can get a job;
++ Until they can get a job...within reason. 16 years isn't "until they can get a job".

++ I'm not going to adress this set of issues right now...
And, on economic and safety and commerce issues, the government has a large role to play:
- Creating a fair and competitive marketplace;
- Preventing fraud and financial abuse;
- Keeping the financial systems stable;
- Regulating the safety and availability of products;
- Collecting duties;
- Ensuring the flow of international commerce;
- Ensuring the availability and affordability of health insurance and car insurance and home insurance and business insurance;
- Disaster assistance;
- Financial assistance to failed institutions that are essential to our economy;
- Preventing monopolies and promoting anti-trust;
- Securing the banking systems;
- Assisting our veterans;
- Funding our educational systems;
- Promoting public health policies;
- Prevention of disease and epidemics;

And, on Security the governement has a large role to play:
- Protecting our borders;
- Preventing illegal immigration;
- Preventing importation of illegal guns and WMD's;
- Protecting our commercial naval vessels from Piracy;
- Preventing the spread of terrorism against the US and our allies;
++ I'll just agree with all of those and move on

And, on rights:
- Nothing wrong with current background check system;
++ Agreed - except that extreme mental illness isn't tracked and reported well enough

- Non-violent felons should not be restricted from possessing, purchasing or owning firearms;
++ OK - I'll go for that. Will the law need to be re-codified to separate the two? Can a class 1 Felony be violent or non-violent?

- Anything above a machine gun or grenade should be speciallly authorized like it is with NFA weapons;
++ I think that's a bit much. If these types of weapons are made available to law-abiding folks like you and I, then there will be a black market of stolen RPGs and other such weapons, and criminals will ruin the fun for everyone by robbing banks with stolen RPGs instead of stolen handguns.

- Our right to assemble should be returned to the original intent instead of being strangled through governmnent permits;
++ Agreed

- Our right to free speech should include the ability to operate broadcast radio stations that don't interfere with mainstream broadcasters;
++ Agreed

On Firearms I am in favor of liberalizing gun laws to make them more reasonable for ordinary citizens to purchase, own, transport, carry and use them (when justified). Concealed Carry should be available to all, except for minors, and first year college students, and violent felons and mentally unstable people and people who have made public or private threats of violence. And, I have other liberal and democratic friends that feel the same way.
++ OK - I can just go along with this (I'm getting tired)

Also, most of my Democratic friends want illegal immigration stopped and illegals sent home and discouraged from coming back. In fact, the Obama administration has increased the number of illegals returned over George Bush's administration.
++ Yes - make it stop - send them back - whatever it takes. I'm not sure about your "increase of numbers" between the two administrations.

These are traditionally conservative positions, but there is no reason that they can't coexist with our liberal positions.
++OK

My main point here is to try and realize that we are all individuals and every one of us has a slightly different view. We only organize into parties because that is how the system developed over time and the structure we have inherited. But that doesn't make us all alike.
++ I have always been a proponent of the idea that NOBODY is strictly Republican or Democrat. There will be personal differences in everyone. Not every single democrat believes that abortion or gay marriage are OK, just as not every single Republican thinks the opposite.

On Obama, I would give him a grade of B- across the board, an A+ on being Commander in Chief, a C- on the economy, a C- on fixing wall street, a B on the Medical Insurance Legislation, and an A+ on public speeches and acting as the leader of our country. I would give him a C on working with Congress, but a A on operating the government agencies. His biggest weakness is being too collegial and willing to compromise, and not being more aggressive with political enemies. His biggest strength is his character and intelligence and speaking abilities, and ability to delgate to his teams.
++ I give him a D across the board, an F on being CIC, a C- on the economy, a C- on fixing Wall Street, a Z- on Obamacare and an F on acting as a leader of our country (we don't bow to other countries). He is a good speaker, and that's what got him where he is. I think his social policies are so far out in left field that it's ruining our country. He can't be blamed for it all...this has been a long time coming.

Thanks in advance for maintaining decorum on this thread, as I will do the same.
Thanks,
Dems4Guns

[zephyp]

A simple history lesson that should partly repeat itself....

Our country was founded primarily because a group of people wanted to do things different from the way the king ran things so they came to America. This group of people worked and had families and lived their lives the way they wanted. The king didnt like this so he sent troops to try and force the people in America to do things his way. They fought a long hard war and eventually won. These folks then formed a government based on a Constitution. This Constitution and their vision established our way of life and America was born.

There now seems to be a large group of people who dont like the way things are done and desire a radical departure from American ways based on the Founding Father's ideals and beliefs.

This group should learn from history and go find someplace where they can live life the way they want. Dont worry, we wont come after you and try to force you to live our way. Not worth the trouble. You can take your beliefs and just leave.

If the king followed the original Americans, did what he did and suffered the eventual outcome...what do you think might eventually happen if you continue to stand our ground and attempt to force your way of life upon us....

Just food for thought...Happy Wednesday....

[Kreutz]

This group should learn from history and go find someplace where they can live life the way they want. Dont worry, we wont come after you and try to force you to live our way. Not worth the trouble. You can take your beliefs and just leave

Not quite, if I move to Germany or any other country I am still required to pay US income tax on income earned in that country.

And they do extradite for this.

I wanted to move to Europe (its a better quality of life) but my wife wouldn't go, so, I'm stuck here.

[allingeneral]

This group should learn from history and go find someplace where they can live life the way they want. Dont worry, we wont come after you and try to force you to live our way. Not worth the trouble. You can take your beliefs and just leave

Not quite, if I move to Germany or any other country I am still required to pay US income tax on income earned in that country.

And they do extradite for this.

I wanted to move to Europe (its a better quality of life) but my wife wouldn't go, so, I'm stuck here.

I suppose you could move to Amsterdam and renounce your US citizenship, become a citizen of The Netherlands, and not have to worry about US taxes or other US intrusions into your life.

Does it work like that? Renouncing citizenship, I mean?