Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

[dems4guns]

Public schools don't have to "condone a religion" in order to allow prayer. I don't think anyone is saying that we want require class-wide participation in Christian prayer. It would be enough to allow someone to pray before they eat lunch or to speak to another student about God. without being reprimanded for "bringing religion into the school"

I think the right balance is to provide a minute of silence for those who choose to pray or simply meditate silently. And, the nonreligious should respect that. They are not being forced to hear any prayer.

There are lots of good reasons for a moment of silence especially near holidays and in memoriam. It shows respect for those who server their country and respect for religious tolerance.
Dems4guns

[dems4guns]

You implied that we cannot know what the founding father's intents were. I supplied the quotes from those same framers of the Constitution to show what their intents were. If you cannot accept that, don't make the implication!

NO. I said it doesn't matter what the founding fathers intents were. The US and State Constitutions and their associated laws are what we operate under, not the thoughts of people from 1780. What matters is what we want from our governments and from society today. What YOU and I think matters more than what Thomas Jefferson thought.....today. Can we use his wise words to develop our own positions?...Yes.

A law abiding citizen should be able to obtain and possess in whatever manner they deem acceptable any firearm that they so choose without any governmental intrusion whatsoever! If that means that John Q. Public wants to have a fully automatic .50 caliber handgun and conceal it on his person while traveling freely from state to state in this once great nation, so be it! It's really nobody's business but his!

If my neighbor has a nuclear bomb, that is definitely my business and everyone else's business. So where do you draw the line? Machine guns? Hand grenades? C4 explosives? Surface to Air Missiles? Tanks? Howitzers? Chemical Weapons? Nuclear Weapons? Nuclear Tipped Missiles? Where?

This would, of necessity, involve the revocation of the NFA and along with it the BATFE (not a bad thing IMO!).

Wouldn't be a bad idea to revise the NFA and the BATFE laws and agency mandates. Not sure I agree they should be eliminated entirely, but the laws should be liberalized and the systems modernized to prevent violent felons and mentally ill people from getting deadly weapons, especially ones that can cause a lot of death very quickly.

As for the rest of my beliefs, although I despise political parties, I find that the Constitution party best aligns with most of my core beliefs. http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

I encourange you to check your facts rather than just swalloing the vast amount of political propaganda coming from the right wing and the Constitution Party. Positions coming from the Constitution party don't seem to stay very far from the official Fox News view of the world. Check your facts rather than just swallowing Fox News propaganda whole.
Dems4Guns

[Yarddawg]

You implied that we cannot know what the founding father's intents were. I supplied the quotes from those same framers of the Constitution to show what their intents were. If you cannot accept that, don't make the implication!

NO. I said it doesn't matter what the founding fathers intents were. The US and State Constitutions and their associated laws are what we operate under, not the thoughts of people from 1780. What matters is what we want from our governments and from society today. What YOU and I think matters more than what Thomas Jefferson thought.....today. Can we use his wise words to develop our own positions?...Yes.

I never said that you said that, I said that you implied it.

It doesn't matter what they said anyway. What matters is what we want our country to be TODAY.

Let's look at your argument here: Let's look at it from home. Let's assume you are married and have children, you tell your family "Don't swim in the lake." Your family doesn't like that and decide that to fit today's wants (it is 95 degrees today after all!), that they will swim there. You come home from a hard day at work and find them swimming in the lake. What do you do at that point?

A law abiding citizen should be able to obtain and possess in whatever manner they deem acceptable any firearm that they so choose without any governmental intrusion whatsoever! If that means that John Q. Public wants to have a fully automatic .50 caliber handgun and conceal it on his person while traveling freely from state to state in this once great nation, so be it! It's really nobody's business but his!

If my neighbor has a nuclear bomb, that is definitely my business and everyone else's business. So where do you draw the line? Machine guns? Hand grenades? C4 explosives? Surface to Air Missiles? Tanks? Howitzers? Chemical Weapons? Nuclear Weapons? Nuclear Tipped Missiles? Where?

What part of ANY firearms do you not understand?

This would, of necessity, involve the revocation of the NFA and along with it the BATFE (not a bad thing IMO!).

Wouldn't be a bad idea to revise the NFA and the BATFE laws and agency mandates. Not sure I agree they should be eliminated entirely, but the laws should be liberalized and the systems modernized to prevent violent felons and mentally ill people from getting deadly weapons, especially ones that can cause a lot of death very quickly.

Again, if they are a law abiding citizen, I have no problem with them owning these weapons.

As for the rest of my beliefs, although I despise political parties, I find that the Constitution party best aligns with most of my core beliefs. http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

I encourange you to check your facts rather than just swalloing the vast amount of political propaganda coming from the right wing and the Constitution Party. Positions coming from the Constitution party don't seem to stay very far from the official Fox News view of the world. Check your facts rather than just swallowing Fox News propaganda whole.
Dems4Guns[/quote]

As I stated, I despise political partys, this party most closely matches my beliefs.

[allingeneral]

I encourange you to check your facts rather than just swalloing the vast amount of political propaganda coming from the right wing and the Constitution Party. Positions coming from the Constitution party don't seem to stay very far from the official Fox News view of the world. Check your facts rather than just swallowing Fox News propaganda whole.
Dems4Guns

Swallowing FoxNews propaganda whole? Really? The entire rest of the media world has been feeding propaganda to the masses for the last 50 years. I personally find FoxNews to be a breath of fresh air; however, I certainly don't live and die by it. They have some stuff that's out there from time to time, but for the most part, I find them Fair and Balanced. You should check out Glenn Beck, and really give some thought to the points that he brings out. He makes some good ones.

[Kreutz]

Public schools don't have to "condone a religion" in order to allow prayer. I don't think anyone is saying that we want require class-wide participation in Christian prayer. It would be enough to allow someone to pray before they eat lunch or to speak to another student about God. without being reprimanded for "bringing religion into the school"

I agree a few moments to allow kids to engage in private prayer (or zone out) is fine as its simply an onus for an individual to engage in whatever they want for a minute or two.

Posting the Ten Commandments on government property is a different (and to me pointless, I would think the Beatitudes are a better moral lesson anyway for people to live by) matter though.

If prayer doesn't belong there, then how can you say that homosexuality does?

What do you mean by "belong there"? You make it sound like dudes were screwing in front of our class and we had to join in. We were simply taught the factual truths:

1) gay people exist(!)

2) They deserve equal treatment entitled to all human beings/American citizens(!)

That seriously is the extent of the homosexual indoctrination in NY public schools. IIRC it covered about 10 minutes in class.

Now maybe in San Francisco they have the live action demonstration..

This amounts to the school system condoning homosexual behavior, which is a very bad precedent to set IMHO.

No one chooses to be gay (who'd choose to be treated like a second class citizen?) so there is no danger of conversion.

I am pulling my oldest daughter out of public school next year because they've gone crazy at the high school.

You certainly have the right to do so, hope she gets a quality education wherever she is.

Normal kids aren't allowed to function anymore. All the whack-jobs make it impossible.

No such thing as normal man. I'm not sure why people have this idealized version of the past!

[Kreutz]

If my neighbor has a nuclear bomb, that is definitely my business and everyone else's business. So where do you draw the line? Machine guns? Hand grenades? C4 explosives? Surface to Air Missiles? Tanks? Howitzers? Chemical Weapons? Nuclear Weapons? Nuclear Tipped Missiles? Where?

Theres a patch of trees on my property I'd love to clear out...shelling them with a howitzer would probably be the easiest way to handle them.

Just saying.

[zephyp]

@Cody - you are misinformed and have a twisted view of the truth...

truth is that it is un-American to not allow our children to worship in school if they want...others dont have to participate if they dont want to...and besides its not the children who are offended its the adults...homosexuality is indeed taught and promoted in the classroom and all children have to participate regardless of who is offended...that is un-American....Jones is a self-professed communist...and hand picked by the president...thats a first...dont know about you but that very same government trained me to fight communism...you dont see a decline in morals because you have none...and it wasnt up to the men to be judged by sharia law...the judge made that decision...this is America not Iran...

Fact is that people like you are ruining our country and stripping us of our original rights, freedoms and forcing your ill conceived beliefs upon us...

By the way if you are offended by my rhetoric then that is your problem...not mine...

A wise old man once told me that an offense is like a turd...nasty smelly and carrying all manner of ills...yeah shame on the feller who tosses it onto the ground but even more shame on the idiot who picks it up puts in is pocket and then gets angry at the guy who threw it because it stinks so bad...

[allingeneral]

Yep - that seems like a good stopping point.