Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Sometime this year, we taxpayers will again receive another 'Economic Stimulus' payment

This is indeed a very exciting program, and I'll explain it by using a Q & A format:

Q. What is an 'Economic Stimulus' payment ?

A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

Q... Where will the government get this money ?

A. From taxpayers.

Q. So the government is giving me back my own money ?

A. Only a smidgen of it.

Q. What is the purpose of this payment ?

A. The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.

Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?

A. Shut up.

Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the U.S. economy by
spending your stimulus check wisely:

* If you spend the stimulus money at Wal-Mart, the money will
go to China or Sri Lanka ..

* If you spend it on gasoline, your money will go to the
Arabs.

* If you purchase a computer, it will go to India , Taiwan or
China ..

* If you purchase fruit and vegetables, it will go to Mexico ,
Honduras and Guatemala ...

* If you buy an efficient car, it will go to Japan or Korea ..

* If you purchase useless stuff, it will go to Taiwan ..

* If you pay your credit cards off, or buy stock, it will go to management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.

Instead, keep the money in America by:

1) Spending it at yard sales, or

2) Going to ball games, or

3) Spending it on prostitutes, or

4) Beer or

5) Tattoos.
(These are the only American businesses still operating in the U.S. )
Conclusion:
Go to a ball game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink beer all day !

Can it be imported beer?

No Anhauser Busch beer (Budweiser, Michelob, Busch) products either...they are now owned by the Belgians.

Well, I guess it will have to be home brew

You can also buy certain New Balance shoes. To my knowledge, they're the only shoe company that actually makes a lot of their stuff (including several lines of running/sports shoes) here in the USA. And yes, they're actually good shoes. That's all I buy now, and yes, I do check the label.

As for Wal-Mart, about the only thing I buy from them is .22LR ammo, and that's Federal, Winchester, or Remington--all made here.

If American car companies would do like Honda did in the 1980's and 1990's, and like Volkswagen does with the Jetta Diesel, they wouldn't be able to build them fast enough. But they just won't learn. Gov. Brian Schweitzer owns a Jetta Diesel for exactly this reason (also a Dodge Cummins--he loves Diesel efficiency). And no, I don't trust GM to get it right with this new "Chevy Volt", because of their sucky quality record. Heck, I'd trust little Tesla Motors with their upcoming "Model S" more than I trust GM. Ford and Chrysler are no different. And as for trucks, if Toyota or Nissan made pickup trucks (1/2-ton, 3/4-ton, or 1-ton) with a good turbodiesel, the Big Three would lose a lot of that market, too.

And that's a major factor of why so many foreign cars are sold in this country. Big Three: EPIC FAIL.

CowboyT wrote:If American car companies would do like Honda did in the 1980's and 1990's, and like Volkswagen does with the Jetta Diesel, they wouldn't be able to build them fast enough. But they just won't learn. Gov. Brian Schweitzer owns a Jetta Diesel for exactly this reason (also a Dodge Cummins--he loves Diesel efficiency). And no, I don't trust GM to get it right with this new "Chevy Volt", because of their sucky quality record. Heck, I'd trust little Tesla Motors with their upcoming "Model S" more than I trust GM. Ford and Chrysler are no different. And as for trucks, if Toyota or Nissan made pickup trucks (1/2-ton, 3/4-ton, or 1-ton) with a good turbodiesel, the Big Three would lose a lot of that market, too.

And that's a major factor of why so many foreign cars are sold in this country. Big Three: EPIC FAIL.

So here is the question to ponder about automobiles Which is more American, a Honda made in Maryville, OH or a new GM made in Mexico? Hmmmmm!!! The next question would be: Why can the Japanese and Koreans manufacture cars in the U.S. (yes, some Hyundais are made here) economically and the U.S. automakers move production to Canada or Mexico? Me thinks it has to be something with the UAW...

If you want to keep the money local, there are charities here at home that feed homeless children. There are local 4-H clubs that need support. There are local mom and pop restuarants that need patrons. There are local breweries that would appreciate business, and the list goes on and on. Buying local, eating local, selling local are all REAL ways to keep the money local. But I digress...... this is a "I want it now" society we've allowed to exist. Ya know, we could all invest in local shoot clubs and ranges
Just a little food for thought.

It's amazing to me how our political "leaders" are not pushing us to buy American to help stimulate the economy. Charity, after all, does begin at home!

Taggure wrote:

+1

There are great American micro breweries as well.

I recommend we all do what I did with the previous stimulus payment, buy firearms or ammo. Seriously, "stimulate" those things the ignorant politicians really don't want us to have. Stock up on high cap mags, buy a Glock and a boat load of those 33rnd mags, buy an AR and stockpile drum mags for it, why stop at 10k rounds per firearm? Even better, but something really "evil" like an NFA item...pick up a silencer (or suppressor if you prefer the term) for your high cap Glock!


The "stimulus" is a stupid idea. At best all it can do is shift demand between some markets.

grumpyMSG wrote:

CowboyT wrote:Big Three: EPIC FAIL.

So here is the question to ponder about automobiles Which is more American, a Honda made in Maryville, OH or a new GM made in Mexico? Hmmmmm!!! The next question would be: Why can the Japanese and Koreans manufacture cars in the U.S. (yes, some Hyundais are made here) economically and the U.S. automakers move production to Canada or Mexico? Me thinks it has to be something with the UAW...

@T - indeed...epic fail and for several reasons...

@Grumpy - ya think...foreign manufacturers here in the US dont cotton to the unions and they make better cheaper more efficient cars. Somebody should figure that out.

I recommend we all do what I did with the previous stimulus payment, buy AMERICAN firearms or ammo.

There fixed it.

Reverenddel wrote:I recommend we all do what I did with the previous stimulus payment, buy AMERICAN firearms or ammo.

There fixed it.

Like cars, many foreign brands are actually made here because of the laws and tariffs.

I had a Ford made in Mexico and a Hyundai made in Tennessee. Go figure.

Yep, that's the problem with "buying American". There are very, very few products that are purely American made AND the parent company is based in America. Even if one buys a Chevy (remember the tune ages ago that went "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet"?), the electronics contained in it ain't made here!

Our next President should be pursuing whatever means necessary to restore and maintain manufacturing here in the States. Of course that may mean some of those evil tax breaks for corporations to allow them the capital to invest in the needed infrastructure.

Yarddawg wrote:Yep, that's the problem with "buying American". There are very, very few products that are purely American made AND the parent company is based in America. Even if one buys a Chevy (remember the tune ages ago that went "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet"?), the electronics contained in it ain't made here!

Our next President should be pursuing whatever means necessary to restore and maintain manufacturing here in the States. Of course that may mean some of those evil tax breaks for corporations to allow them the capital to invest in the needed infrastructure.

I have no problem with buying the best product for my needs regardless of where it is made. Those dollars ultimately come back to the USA anyways in the long term. Unless the they are willing to provide me goods and/or services and never spend my dollars, there is no value to your trade policies. We should do what we do best which is what will drive our economy, not hold onto low wage and skilled jobs. Pushing to do things in the US which others can do better just means we pay more for the same thing and that ultimately makes all of us poorer than we would be otherwise.

gunderwood wrote:I have no problem with buying the best product for my needs regardless of where it is made. Those dollars ultimately come back to the USA anyways in the long term. Unless the they are willing to provide me goods and/or services and never spend my dollars, there is no value to your trade policies. We should do what we do best which is what will drive our economy, not hold onto low wage and skilled jobs. Pushing to do things in the US which others can do better just means we pay more for the same thing and that ultimately makes all of us poorer than we would be otherwise.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. The problem becomes, where does it end? At the rate that this country is going, we will soon be a nation that produces nothing!

Yarddawg wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with you. The problem becomes, where does it end? At the rate that this country is going, we will soon be a nation that produces nothing!

In many ways it is a self balancing system. If we don't produce something (which could just be IP, designs, services, etc.) that other people want, why would they trade us their goods and services?

If I am going to sell you a gun, I want something in return for it. It could be cutting down a dead tree in my yard, to dollars, to gold, to another gun, etc. Other than a gift, I will expect something in return...although some people expect something in return for their gifts, but that's a different story. What happens if you don't do or make or have something which I want? No deal, right?

Unless we are using our "savings" to trade, we all must be doing something that is of value for another person, American or otherwise, or else we will have nothing to trade with. I.e. you can't pay me for the gun unless you are doing work that is considered valuable by others and they are willing to compensate you for that. If we turn the tables, I know my direct work would likely not be valuable to you (if I wanted to purchase a gun from you), but it is very valuable to some people and they do compensate me for it. Without that compensation I could not pay you for the gun.

The same is true of countries. We do a lot of things which other consider valuable, so they pay us well. We take less days off and generally are more efficient than Europeans (all of the EU) which is why our GDPs are similar despite our population being only 300M and theirs is 700M. Also, their population has more working aged people so that makes the comparison even worse. American's would rather work for more, while Europeans would rather work less, but have more time off. Etc.

If we aren't producing something who would want to trade with us?

The problem for us is this: after WW2 we were basically the only industrialized country which still could produce on a large scale. Someone had to build the tools and provide for those war torn countries while they rebuilt. However, that "growth" was never real or sustainable. Taking our tax dollars and giving it to countries to purchase our products was just a shifting of resources. Particularly when you consider that in general they were not expected to pay it back. That is perhaps the chief fallacy of economics, only considering some of the impacts not all. There was a negative impact on our economy even if they printed all of those dollars to give during reconstruction. We certainly paid for it later with stagflation and a host of other economic evils over the decades.

One thing it did that was very real was it shifted our economy towards production of real items using low wage labor. Realize that the US was literally producing half of all of the economic value in the world, but that has been declining ever since. Since we had very little competition, we could perform those jobs and expect a first world, top class living standard and it did work for a while. However, that shift can't last forever. Eventually others acquired the tools to compete with us on those lower wage production jobs. Of course the world economy has moved on and now there are whole industries which didn't exist before. Most of those new industries provide higher wages but require more education and skilled labor.

The problem is we want our cake and to eat it too. We want to perform yesterdays low tech, low education jobs and expect wages like we use to get when we had no competition...of course we also want cheap products. It was just an economic deformity which the horrors of war and manipulative monetary policies allowed to exist for a short period of time.

If you want the best living standards in the world and the best stuff (cars to health care to guns to whatever) you must do tomorrows jobs which require advanced skills. You must constantly retrain, continually educate, and not only deal with the change, but actually drive it if you want to remain on top. You also must let others do those lesser jobs so that you can "take advantage" of the same products for less while focusing your efforts what's next. It isn't economically sustainable to expect $100k a year in salary, all benefits paid, a pension, etc. in exchange for a high school education so you can screw lug nuts onto a car. That may be harsh, but it is reality. There are millions of people who are willing to do that job for less and can easily perform it. Supply and demand are not somehow revoked simply because this is the job market.

If you want to be #1 and the economic lifestyle that comes with it, you must push further and faster than anyone else. You can't achieve that by doing the same old thing while expecting more for it.

I just don't see that the course we are currently on, as working.



http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/ustrade.html

The Nation's international trade deficit in goods and services increased to $497.8 billion in 2010 from $374.9 billion in 2009.

For December, the trade deficit increased to $40.6 billion from $38.3 billion (revised) in November. Exports increased $2.8 billion from November to $163.0 billion in December. Goods were $116.6 billion in December, up from $113.7 billion in November, and services were $46.4 billion in December, virtually unchanged from November. Imports increased $5.1 billion from November to $203.5 billion in December. Goods were $170.1 billion in December, up from $165.0 billion in November, and services were $33.4 billion in December, virtually unchanged from November.

Overall, we are still importing more than we are exporting.