Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

An interesting take on the magazine ban propesed by Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) in that it shows another very true side of the consequence of it if it did pass....

No provision is made for how to lawfully dispose of the prohibited magazine. It is unlawful for widows and heirs to either keep the magazine or to get rid of it (transfer).

http://www.pgnh.org/mccarthys_magazine_ban_turns_widows_into_felons

Interesting indeed.....

If the ban was to pass, wouldn't that make any prohibited magazine built before the effective date a "pre-ban magazine"?.

A pre-ban magazine would be perfectly legally because it was built before the effective ban date. I seem to remember going through this exact scenario once before.

Wouldn't matter, with what McCarthy is proposing.. Even if you had pre ban magazines she has the bill written so that noone can transfer a high cap magazine of any kind at any time;evn pre ban types ,,, So if you were to pass away , technically your heirs woudn;'t be legally allowed to take possession of the ones you had,,, No idea how they would find out but that's the jist of the bill..... Totally screw gun owners with High Cap mags now and later,..A lot of twisted thinking in that bill and it is very dangerous to gun owners .

Rep. McCarthy doesn't care about rights. She cares about removing power from us, the citizenry. I seem to remember reading another Congress-critter named McCarthy who also didn't care about our rights. Hmmm.....

Rep. McCarthy needs to go back to her nursing job, because she is clearly a lousy legislator. When it comes to lawmaking, she knows about how much of which way is up as she does her "shoulder thing that goes up."

I would think the Fifth Amendment's

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

would be the applicable portion of the law that Ms.McCarthy needs to be taught about. How would she fund the Federal Government's purchase of the magazines, they can't just seize them. I am no lawyer, but she doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on, on this one.

grumpyMSG wrote:How would she fund the Federal Government's purchase of the magazines, they can't just seize them. I am no lawyer, but she doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on, on this one.

The government seizes property all the time without compensation. Once something is declared contraband, it can be taken without requiring compensation. The government won't compensate you if they seize your kilo of cocaine, even if you possessed it before it became illegal. They won't compensate you for seizing your unregistered Tommy gun, even if you bought it before it was outlawed.

I think we would be better off if people realized that the Constitution doesn't actually mean anything anymore. Might get folks to realize just what they've voted themselves into over the last century or so.

I think that everyone should now realize that the government can, has, and will do anything they so please. Doesnt make it right but what is a person to do. How many times do we see stuff like this happening and how many elections go by with we the people screaming that we'll vote them out. Folks, in case you havent been keeping up with current events, that notion of voting them out...it aint working too well.

Agreed, it looks dim at the moment..Gotta remember that WE just got our collective heads out of our asses and realized things were going very wrong. It is going to take a few election cycles to get it better, We may never get rid of the McCarthys'.,Lautenbergs, Feinsteins and other social pariahs but by keeping a lot of pressure on those we elect from now on we stand a chance of some improvement and getting the message across that we won;t take their nonsense laying down anymore.The minute we let the pressure off we lose, as they will revert right back to business as usual.... Obama ran on a campaign of "change" and WE need to be the ones making them///Not the dead weight entitlement wasters, PC/affirmative action social clubs, lifetime politicians with a barrel of BS or organized labor theifs claiming to be for the country while stealing it blind...Our work is cut out for us .We just need to get it done!

Diomed wrote:

grumpyMSG wrote:How would she fund the Federal Government's purchase of the magazines, they can't just seize them. I am no lawyer, but she doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on, on this one.

The government seizes property all the time without compensation. Once something is declared contraband, it can be taken without requiring compensation. The government won't compensate you if they seize your kilo of cocaine, even if you possessed it before it became illegal. They won't compensate you for seizing your unregistered Tommy gun, even if you bought it before it was outlawed.

I think we would be better off if people realized that the Constitution doesn't actually mean anything anymore. Might get folks to realize just what they've voted themselves into over the last century or so.

+1

VBshooter wrote:Agreed, it looks dim at the moment..Gotta remember that WE just got our collective heads out of our asses and realized things were going very wrong. It is going to take a few election cycles to get it better, We may never get rid of the McCarthys'.,Lautenbergs, Feinsteins and other social pariahs but by keeping a lot of pressure on those we elect from now on we stand a chance of some improvement and getting the message across that we won;t take their nonsense laying down anymore.The minute we let the pressure off we lose, as they will revert right back to business as usual.... Obama ran on a campaign of "change" and WE need to be the ones making them///Not the dead weight entitlement wasters, PC/affirmative action social clubs, lifetime politicians with a barrel of BS or organized labor theifs claiming to be for the country while stealing it blind...Our work is cut out for us .We just need to get it done!

So, how about all that stuff in Tunisia and Egypt. I sure do feel sorry for all those folks...and those poor governments too. Simply shocking that things would come to the level where millions of so called citizens gather in the capitol city demanding change...

VBshooter wrote:Agreed, it looks dim at the moment..Gotta remember that WE just got our collective heads out of our asses and realized things were going very wrong. It is going to take a few election cycles to get it better, We may never get rid of the McCarthys'.,Lautenbergs, Feinsteins and other social pariahs but by keeping a lot of pressure on those we elect from now on we stand a chance of some improvement and getting the message across that we won;t take their nonsense laying down anymore.The minute we let the pressure off we lose, as they will revert right back to business as usual.... Obama ran on a campaign of "change" and WE need to be the ones making them///Not the dead weight entitlement wasters, PC/affirmative action social clubs, lifetime politicians with a barrel of BS or organized labor theifs claiming to be for the country while stealing it blind...Our work is cut out for us .We just need to get it done!

I would add to that defense contractors, bankers, oil companies, pharmaceuticals, agri-business, the music/movie "MAFIAA", and several others. Not only do I want to see the McCarthys, Lautenbergs, and Feinsteins gone, I also want to see the Cantors, Boehners, and McCains gone, too. We need to elect actual Constitutionalists instead of these collective swine feeding at our trough. They're all trying to be Strom Thurmond and Robert Byrd--"Congressman for life". Unacceptable. As you say, we just need to get it done!

Can't argue with that Main thing is not to get discouraged when we hit bumps in the road, just need to plow through and keep on going!!

This is the type of thing we absolutely need to slap down hard.

Start with our federal representatives right, get our state reps involved, any organization we belong too. Heck ask our county and town governments to pass a resolution against it.

Send a resolution from the VA Gun forum.

The idea that she even thinks she can propose such a monstrosity appalls me.

Andy

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, not being the easiest thing on the eyes is also one of the most appaling Representatives in Congress today,,, In her mind due to her husband being murdered ,which was indeed unfortuante she has the right to take away or restrict the rights of others based on her misfortune ...She is one the Republicans should put a little extra effort into getting unseated in COngress along with several other rights takers..

seeknulfind wrote:Start with our federal representatives right, get our state reps involved, any organization we belong too. Heck ask our county and town governments to pass a resolution against it.

Send a resolution from the VA Gun forum.

Andy

I'd be happy to put the VGOF stamp on a draft that makes a good point, in a respectful way, which may influence someone in a decision-making position. I'm always open to suggestions in this regard and would be proud to have VGOF represent the interests of the Second Amendment in Virginia or for Virginia at the National level.

We don't carry a HUGE amount of weight right now, but at nearly 3,000 members and growing every day - we might be able to make an impact at some point. Keep telling your friends to visit VGOF!

Here's a hoot - McCarthy doesn't even list this bill as one she is sponsoring or co-sponsoring. Is she afraid of something?

http://carolynmccarthy.house.gov/index. ... Items=True


And yet she is clearing being seen as the sponsor:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-308

She has 108 co-sponsors - all Democrats - including 3 from Va -

Gerald Connolly
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=412272

James Moran

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400283

and

Robert (Bobby) Scott

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400364

Of all of these listed only Bobby Scott has this bill listed as one he co-sponsors

Moran doesn't seem to list ANY bills. Not surprising considering his "biography" is a photo gallery. He does stand strong for Gay and Animal rights.

I've sent an email to the one US representative I expect to be friendly. Now I'll dash off some to our liberal senators.

Andy

allingeneral wrote:

seeknulfind wrote:Start with our federal representatives right, get our state reps involved, any organization we belong too. Heck ask our county and town governments to pass a resolution against it.

Send a resolution from the VA Gun forum.

Andy

I'd be happy to put the VGOF stamp on a draft that makes a good point, in a respectful way, which may influence someone in a decision-making position. I'm always open to suggestions in this regard and would be proud to have VGOF represent the interests of the Second Amendment in Virginia or for Virginia at the National level.

We don't carry a HUGE amount of weight right now, but at nearly 3,000 members and growing every day - we might be able to make an impact at some point. Keep telling your friends to visit VGOF!

I'll post a draft with the understanding and expectation that it's only a draft and other members will hopefully add their input.

Andy

Rough Draft below - please note I may be unavailable to answer comments or questions this weekend. However, I'm sure I'm leaving this in very capable hands.

Andy


RE: HR 308 Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act
& S 32 Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act

To Whom it May Concern and Particularly to Elected Officials Charged with Preserving and Upholding The Constitution of The United States of America and with the Authority "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof" As stated in Article 1 Section 8 of said Constitution


Let it be known that the members of VGOF also known as the Virginia Gun Owners Forum overwhelmingly oppose the passage of HR 308 and S 32 respectively on several grounds.

The proposed legislation would prohibit:

(1) the transfer or possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device, except for its lawful possession within the United States on or before the date of this Act's enactment; and
(2) the importation or bringing into the United States of such a device. Sets forth exceptions to such ban. Sets penalties for violations

The first and primary objection to these bills is simply that such legislation is entirely unnecessary as it can only prevent law-biding citizens from acquiring and transferring these devices.

In addition, the ban on the lawful transfer of existing devices dramatically infringes on the rights
of citizens to sell or otherwise transfer their legally obtained property to others, essentially violating the 5th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America specifically: "nor shall any person...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; "

Furthermore, said legislation seeks to regulate property after it was lawfully obtained thus violating: the Section 9 of the Constitution of the United States of America stating "No ...ex post facto Law shall be passed."

as "large capacity magazines" as described in these proposals do not now, nor have ever posed a threat to any citizen by themselves

Finally, we object on the grounds that the entire proposed legislation violates the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America stating "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

As to this last objection, let it be known that as residents of the Commonwealth of Virginia, we also site the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virgina Section 13 which states:

Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.

That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

This wording sheds further light on the meaning of the word militia as "composed of the body of the people, trained to arms"

When our forefathers framed these respective constitutions, the meaning of the word "militia" was well known and accepted and thus any formal definition was deemed unnecessary. However, this knowledge has been lost or obscured by some unwilling or unable to come to grips with the meaning of the word. As such we turn to the historical meaning of the word...

Virginian George Mason is quoted as saying ""The great object is that every man be armed," he argued, "but can the people afford to pay for double sets of arms?"

His concern was not limiting arms but finding a way to ensure that every man be armed with the best military equipment possible without undue expense.

This and other historical references lead us on one conclusion: the framers of the Constitution believed every able person not only had a right to keep and bear arms but a responsibility to such. And their clear desire was for those arms to be at least as good as any foe our nation could possibly face.

In conclusion, we stand united in our opposition to this unjust, unnecessary and unwarranted legislation that can only promise to limit the rights of free and lawful citizens of this nation.

Not only is this proposed law unconstitutional in every respect, it is, in our minds, unconscionable.

By the way: here is a list of "related" bills:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp ... ab=related

A couple aimed at "closing the gun show loophole".

One from Barbara Boxer (excuse my language please) who wants to nationalize standards for ccp's.

As well as some where I don't see any relation. But you know how congress operates:

"A bill for the regulation of cereal box top wording"

a) prohibit free speech in any form that conflicts with the liberal agenda

So the pols can say, "I voted to protect our children from obscene cereal boxtops" and then "Gee, how did THAT get in there? Oh well, looks like you are under arrest - too bad that felony offense means you can't vote me out of office anymore".


Andy

Ol Barbara (Call me Senator) is another self annointed elitist that would serve better hustling sheets at a Holiday Inn as a room service technician.. She and her comrades C McCarthy ,D Feinstein, and A few others are all in that club of "I can do this and screw the public" types that it is a freaking mystery just how they continue to get reelected..