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Handgun discussions - Handgun ammunition selection, gun modifications, pictures. Tell us about your handgun.
 by stuart » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 10:46:19
SgtBill wrote:The trade off in stopping power is Shot Placement. If you hit what you want to hit the first time and where you want to hit and have the heart to follow it up with more rounds you will have stopping power. I carry a Walther .380 with Speer Gold Dot Ammo and if I shoot you 9 times in center mass and the head with it you are going down unless your name is Clark Kent.
Bill
Fair point, but in an adrenaline charged situation how good is your shot placement going to be. You can train all you want but the real thing is different, and if there is ever going to be time when your hands shake that is going to be it. I want something that still generates a lot of damage if my shot goes wide and hits them in the arm. Still a reliable .380 is not a bad choice and it sure beats looking for a rock. The more I look into this the more I like the Kel Tec seems to offer the best combination of concealment, stopping power, and price. What are everyone thoughts on that?
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by Dreghorn » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:20:30
I am currently looking at an STI Shadow in either .40 or 9mm. 1911 style and single stack with a 3" bbl, as a replacement for my EDC. Was also looking at the Springfield EMP, but like the STI a little better.
It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb
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by BluemontGlock » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:22:02
Personally... I totally agree with what has been said already about the .40 handable, powerful, just have a good look at THOSE gold dots...UGH! and I really like the Walther PPS... although i understand it does not like 180 grain rounds and feed 165 gain much better...i do not know why that is yet, still on the case as i have identifed this as one of my future purchases, along with that new Keltec pistol in 22MAG...30 rounds...! just giddy thinking about it... And HEY BILL... FYI...the real thing is different...  Sorry Stuart, just busting chops, as you get to know Sgt Bill, you will understand how silly that statement is to him, specifically...  Be particular, and be vigilant, as the enemy will only attack on two occasions:
When you're ready or when you're not ready.
Also never forget, that everyone who shows up, is not necessarily there to help.
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by stuart » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:45:10
Maybe I should have been more precise, that statement wasn't specifically towards anyone. Just a general observation about the differences between training and the real thing. And to why I have never subscribe to the theory of good shot placement making up for less effective bullets.
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by Snazuolu » Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:33:37
stuart wrote:SgtBill wrote:The trade off in stopping power is Shot Placement. If you hit what you want to hit the first time and where you want to hit and have the heart to follow it up with more rounds you will have stopping power. I carry a Walther .380 with Speer Gold Dot Ammo and if I shoot you 9 times in center mass and the head with it you are going down unless your name is Clark Kent.
Bill
Fair point, but in an adrenaline charged situation how good is your shot placement going to be. You can train all you want but the real thing is different, and if there is ever going to be time when your hands shake that is going to be it. I want something that still generates a lot of damage if my shot goes wide and hits them in the arm. Still a reliable .380 is not a bad choice and it sure beats looking for a rock. The more I look into this the more I like the Kel Tec seems to offer the best combination of concealment, stopping power, and price. What are everyone thoughts on that?
i have a keltec p3at. 380 and its not a bad gun, but it is small. i mean like REALLY small. i cant even get 2 fingers around the grip. recoil is nothing, but the gun is so small and i cant get a good grip on it so after every 2 or 3 shots i have to stop and readjust my grip. but it shoots straighter out the box then my p11 kel tec. ammo is kinda hard to find around here at least, and its about 25 a box.
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by stuart » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:57:52
Snazuolu wrote:stuart wrote:SgtBill wrote:The trade off in stopping power is Shot Placement. If you hit what you want to hit the first time and where you want to hit and have the heart to follow it up with more rounds you will have stopping power. I carry a Walther .380 with Speer Gold Dot Ammo and if I shoot you 9 times in center mass and the head with it you are going down unless your name is Clark Kent.
Bill
Fair point, but in an adrenaline charged situation how good is your shot placement going to be. You can train all you want but the real thing is different, and if there is ever going to be time when your hands shake that is going to be it. I want something that still generates a lot of damage if my shot goes wide and hits them in the arm. Still a reliable .380 is not a bad choice and it sure beats looking for a rock. The more I look into this the more I like the Kel Tec seems to offer the best combination of concealment, stopping power, and price. What are everyone thoughts on that?
i have a keltec p3at. 380 and its not a bad gun, but it is small. i mean like REALLY small. i cant even get 2 fingers around the grip. recoil is nothing, but the gun is so small and i cant get a good grip on it so after every 2 or 3 shots i have to stop and readjust my grip. but it shoots straighter out the box then my p11 kel tec. ammo is kinda hard to find around here at least, and its about 25 a box.
That is one of the problems with very small guns, but small is what I need/
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by guitarpicva » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:17:14
stuart wrote:
That is one of the problems with very small guns, but small is what I need/
I think this is why the J-frame is still so popular. Small, easy to conceal and you can still get a good grip on the thing! guitarpicva
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by MountainCat » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:27:56
If I'm not mistaken, the mini glocks .380, 9mm .357, .40, and .45GAP all are the same physical size. About .5 shorter that a G30.
Any thoughts on a Glock 33 chambered in .357 Sig? I could be wrong but I had thought that it was easy to barrel swap to a .40 if ammo gets scarce. I'll have to research this when my internet speeds up.
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by guitarpicva » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:06:11
MountainCat wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the mini glocks .380, 9mm .357, .40, and .45GAP all are the same physical size. About .5 shorter that a G30.
Any thoughts on a Glock 33 chambered in .357 Sig? I could be wrong but I had thought that it was easy to barrel swap to a .40 if ammo gets scarce. I'll have to research this when my internet speeds up.
Nice ballistics, but there has been a lot of noise about some safety issues surrounding that particular round lately. Sorry, but I cannot quote them off the top of my head. I think another .043 of diameter and readily available ammo would sway me toward the .40 S&W. guitarpicva
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by MountainCat » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:23:16
guitarpicva wrote:Nice ballistics, but there has been a lot of noise about some safety issues surrounding that particular round lately. Sorry, but I cannot quote them off the top of my head.
Could you be a little more specific? Are you talking about KaBooms or issues with the round going past or through the target and going to far?
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by guitarpicva » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:41:40
MountainCat wrote:guitarpicva wrote:Nice ballistics, but there has been a lot of noise about some safety issues surrounding that particular round lately. Sorry, but I cannot quote them off the top of my head.
Could you be a little more specific? Are you talking about KaBooms or issues with the round going past or through the target and going to far?
I'm very sorry, I cannot. I was hoping someone here could fill in the blanks. I do know it wasn't the bullet performance, it was a cartridge related issue. I'll try to dig it up on another forum and translate. guitarpicva
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by GS78 » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:44:37
stuart wrote:Maybe I should have been more precise, that statement wasn't specifically towards anyone. Just a general observation about the differences between training and the real thing. And to why I have never subscribe to the theory of good shot placement making up for less effective bullets.
bullets are not effective. 'those who hammer their guns into plows , will plow for those who don't'
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."...George Orwell
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by SgtBill » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:51:16
That is a pretty broad statement Jim. I do believe that the ammunition that they were made to carry was high power but they can be purchased in lower velocity and weight types. As far as them being pushed back into the caseing with repeated chambering this happens to many types and calibers in Law Enforcement in every state in the country. Not just troopers, but all types of law enforcement.
Bill
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