Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **Chasbo00** » Fri, 15 Jun 2012 09:44:50

Is you handgun a fighting tool or a good luck charm? This article has some insight on that question:

http://paulmarkel.com/?p=370

by **MrSmitty** » Tue, 03 Jul 2012 21:28:27

Great find!! How guilty are we of that?.... I do shoot as often as I can, and I always mentally scan places to hide, or shoot from, and sometime play "what if" scenarios. I am guilty of just carrying the loaded gun, and no extra ammo, but lately I've been more aware of how much ammo I have.

by **M1A4ME** » Wed, 04 Jul 2012 20:34:20

Carrying the 1911 or the XDm around the yard while doing yardwork or letting the dogs out for exercise, or staining the yard furniture, etc. beats the heck out of carrying the AR15 or the 12 ga. riot gun.

by **dorminWS** » Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:30:43

OK, so if you carry a gun you should know how to use it. I'll buy that. And it would be a good idea if you were prepared to use it if you need to. I can see that point, too; although unless you've been under fire before, I don't really see how anybody could know for sure. I'd also observe that even if you know damn well you will shoot somebody given justification, it is a very, very bad idea to be outspoken in saying so. Might be construed as evidence that you were a gun-happy nut looking for a reason. And I own several firearms, have shot almost all of them, and shoot my favorites frequently. It's hard for me to understand owning a gun but not shooting it.

All that being said, I gotta ask: Why the scorn for folks who DON'T shoot their guns or don't do so regularly? Whatever happened to a man's right to do his own thing as long as it's legal? Just what the hell is wrong with owning guns for the sheer pleasure of possessing them? I guess I figure it one thing to revel in your exercise of your First Amendment rights; but it goes a little against the grain for folks to get so chauvinistic about it.

by **Chasbo00** » Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:26:56

dorminWS wrote: I guess I figure it one thing to revel in your exercise of your First Amendment rights; but it goes a little against the grain for folks to get so chauvinistic about it.

The guy who wrote the article is in the training business. Maybe that has something to do with his article's tenor and tone. He is after all in the business of telling people how to use and practice with their handguns. I liked the embedded story of the gris-gris and his use of it as an example.

by **Remington** » Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:34:15

That is a thought-provoking article but I have to add, if you are carrying a loaded and servicable gun in your pocket it isn't just a good luck charm no matter how infrequently you fire that gun. There might have been an implication that guns should be holster carried. I normally fire my carry guns about twice a year but I maintain them. The point for non-lethal force planning was subtle but important. Don't forget your pepper spray. I think the biggest point I am taking from it is that I need to carry a flashlight all the time.

by **Diomed** » Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:32:31

dorminWS wrote:All that being said, I gotta ask: Why the scorn for folks who DON'T shoot their guns or don't do so regularly? Whatever happened to a man's right to do his own thing as long as it's legal? Just what the hell is wrong with owning guns for the sheer pleasure of possessing them? I guess I figure it one thing to revel in your exercise of your First Amendment rights; but it goes a little against the grain for folks to get so chauvinistic about it.

It's a group identity thing. Those kind tend to be jocks, former jocks, or wannabe jocks. "We TRAIN! We are HARDCORE! If you don't TRAIN HARDCORE, you are a SISSY and you DESERVE to be EXECUTED in the STREET while your whole family is RAPED TO DEATH! YEEEARRGH!" [strokes out from the extreme roid rage]

They're all over certain forums and blogs. I find them pretty funny. Well, online. In real life they get tiresome quick.

by **dorminWS** » Fri, 06 Jul 2012 07:43:49

Diomed wrote:
dorminWS wrote:All that being said, I gotta ask: Why the scorn for folks who DON'T shoot their guns or don't do so regularly? Whatever happened to a man's right to do his own thing as long as it's legal? Just what the hell is wrong with owning guns for the sheer pleasure of possessing them? I guess I figure it one thing to revel in your exercise of your First Amendment rights; but it goes a little against the grain for folks to get so chauvinistic about it.

It's a group identity thing. Those kind tend to be jocks, former jocks, or wannabe jocks. "We TRAIN! We are HARDCORE! If you don't TRAIN HARDCORE, you are a SISSY and you DESERVE to be EXECUTED in the STREET while your whole family is RAPED TO DEATH! YEEEARRGH!" [strokes out from the extreme roid rage]

They're all over certain forums and blogs. I find them pretty funny. Well, online. In real life they get tiresome quick.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That strikes me as a pretty astute observation, Diomed. Guess it didn't occur to me in such clear terms as that because out here where I live, we don't have hardly any of those, and what there are, are generally brand-new small-town cops (who are tolerated until they grow up in the finest traditions of Barney Fife). The way I was raised, a man can (and indeed, is expected to) own and be competent with firearms without obsessing about it; and if he demonstrates that he can't do that, his daddy will take away his gun at a young age and keep it that way for as long as daddy's able. By that time, his peers will generally have let him know he won't be admitted to gun-handling circles (thereby raising an unspoken but strong inference that a gun isn't the ONLY equipment he lacks, if you know what I mean), and he'll find some other outlet. But to have a feller like that strutting and crowing like the cock of the walk without folks just laughing him out of town? I'm not saying it can't happen; but it won't get any traction.

by **zerodown1** » Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:16:35

To each his own. I advocate training as much as you can afford,(Its expensive) if you are carrying a firearm for personal protection. Always hope for the best but train for the worst. That being said,there is nothing wrong with owning firearms and shooting when you feel like it just for the joy of owning them. To enjoy the look,the smell,the sound of the action,their precision construction,its all part of it. Just talking to people of like mind about guns is enjoyable. The resons for owning them are many,not just personal defense. However,if your firearms purpose is to provide you with a tool for personal protection and you are going to depend on it and your training to save your butt in a tight spot,it makes good sense to know how to fight with it. :wave:

by **zerodown1** » Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:18:07

dorminWS wrote:
Diomed wrote:
dorminWS wrote:All that being said, I gotta ask: Why the scorn for folks who DON'T shoot their guns or don't do so regularly? Whatever happened to a man's right to do his own thing as long as it's legal? Just what the hell is wrong with owning guns for the sheer pleasure of possessing them? I guess I figure it one thing to revel in your exercise of your First Amendment rights; but it goes a little against the grain for folks to get so chauvinistic about it.

It's a group identity thing. Those kind tend to be jocks, former jocks, or wannabe jocks. "We TRAIN! We are HARDCORE! If you don't TRAIN HARDCORE, you are a SISSY and you DESERVE to be EXECUTED in the STREET while your whole family is RAPED TO DEATH! YEEEARRGH!" [strokes out from the extreme roid rage]

They're all over certain forums and blogs. I find them pretty funny. Well, online. In real life they get tiresome quick.
+1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That strikes me as a pretty astute observation, Diomed. Guess it didn't occur to me in such clear terms as that because out here where I live, we don't have hardly any of those, and what there are, are generally brand-new small-town cops (who are tolerated until they grow up in the finest traditions of Barney Fife). The way I was raised, a man can (and indeed, is expected to) own and be competent with firearms without obsessing about it; and if he demonstrates that he can't do that, his daddy will take away his gun at a young age and keep it that way for as long as daddy's able. By that time, his peers will generally have let him know he won't be admitted to gun-handling circles (thereby raising an unspoken but strong inference that a gun isn't the ONLY equipment he lacks, if you know what I mean), and he'll find some other outlet. But to have a feller like that strutting and crowing like the cock of the walk without folks just laughing him out of town? I'm not saying it can't happen; but it won't get any traction.

by **sarge22853** » Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:35:31

I started my "fire arms" training a9 or 10 years of age. I have carried a hand gun, concealed and/or otherwise, since 1966. I have used a hand gun in close combat situations, but, at least for the time being, I carry a hand gun to dispatch snakes and other "critters" and occationally a deer hit by a vehicle. Budget permiting, I fire all my weapons at least once a year. I think of the hand gun as a life saving and deterant tool. :coffee:

by **Kreutz** » Sat, 14 Jul 2012 09:09:29

Very good read, I'm probably more inclined to say I fall into the category the writer dismisses.

I do not have advanced training...but I don't think I need that since I don't live in a video game that requires me to shoot multiple assailants from behind cover :roll:

. I practiced to the point I can click the sfaety off via muscle memory when drawing, and I really consider that good enough for my average upper middle class existence.

My carry pistol is small and does perform very poorly past the 15 yard mark...but I know most self defense shootings occur at arms length anyway. I also know if I ever shot a man at 15 yards my chances of going to prison are very very high.

My pistol is seldom spotless....I usually don't clean my pistol until about visibly dirty as I've never actually noticed a difference in FTF/FTE if its somewhat dirty or just cleaned anyway.

Its loaded with some American made JHP...I have not analyzed its ballistics nor researched the benefits of its weight. Its metal and moves very fast, and people are not metal. Ergo it will go into them and do damage my fist is incapable of.

You can crap on us casual types, but the truth is, we're the majority and most of us are happy with our gun and level of commitment to learning its use.

by **gmwilkes** » Fri, 27 Jul 2012 07:22:54

I think it comes down to even if you only shoot on occasion, if you carry a firearm for personal defense, you need to understand how things can go from sugar to s*** in seconds. You need to have muscle memory on where your firearm is when you're carrying. Practice the way you fight.

When you're at the range, if you're able to, practice move and shoot. Keep in mind you need to seek cover as soon as possible. It basically comes down to are you prepared and always have a plan for escape since yes, you can kill when. Needed but are you able to reload in the open if still taking fire, etc.

Training is everything in survival and that's what carrying a personal defense gun is all about, survival. I think he's just basically saying that you can't expect a tool (firearm) to work if you've never taken care of it or used it and know how it works.

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by **m4a1mustang** » Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:27:51

I believe that if you choose to carry you should practice regularly so that you remain proficient. I think training is a great thing. Do you need to take combative handgun classes once a month and throw tens of thousands of rounds down range each year? No. But you should shoot regularly enough to maintain an acceptable level of skill. Practice your draw regularly. Dry-fire when you've got some spare time. Be comfortable that if you ever need to use it you know that you've got that skillset.

To each his own, though. At the very least we owe it to our fellow man to take firearm safety seriously. I get a little nervous at the thought of someone walking around with a chambered Glock (or anything else) that has never shot the thing before. Or someone exercising his freedom to carry a pistol without a holster.

I've had a lot of conversations with friends who have expressed interest in buying a handgun and getting their CHP. Since many haven't even handled a handgun before I stress safety most of all. I recommend taking introductory handgun classes as well as more specific CHP classes should they decide they want to carry. And then I stress practice, practice, practice.

by **Jamie** » Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:42:38

Eh. The other thing I hate about these "don't use your gun as a talisman" articles is that they use a reasonable-sounding argument and a catchy saying to argue that one shouldn't bother evaluating whether you drawing a gun has changed the situation radically. They argue that once you draw you should shoot -- with the implication that you shouldn't even bother changing your mind if the bad guy starts running the other way at the first realization that his victim is armed.

In short, it's an article for the bloodthirsty.