Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I actually sometimes get annoyed by the vids of people "setting" up the police recording their encounters of open carry. Most all of the vids are with open carry of rifles, but the one below is an MP5. It's my opinion if you live in a state/city where open carry is legal, the police will know this and respect it. When you are asked "How are you today?" and the first thing out of your mouth is my 2nd amendment right, you can't detain me, blah blah blah... and just appear cocky about the situation spouting out codes before an officer has a chance to respond, it actually looks bad IMO. I'm all for asking for a superior office to be present if the officer is "beyond the law", but dislike most of these "setting up" vids that are floating around.

This vid is the best encounter I've scene taken by the citizen. This was pure and simple trying to get lots of hits online for showing everyone how they are smarter than the police, but it kinda backfires on them. Give the officers a chance and most likely there's no issues.

These assclowns are not helping the cause in any way. Where do they get these stupid ideas?

This video from 2 days ago is what's going to help kill our gun rights. To be honest if my wife and kids are in a park and there's some young kid there with an AR, I would have to question if my family needs to be there.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7a1_1345441315

Assclowns indeed.

I have to say that the officers handled things pretty well.

I also have to say that I understand and admire what the gentleman with the camera was trying to accomplish, but I definitely agree that he was going about it all wrong. Antagonizing police officers is never a good idea.

I too thought of incidents like this as unnecessary until I read the following at opencarry.org

"I don't know about you folks but when I see some of the videos on YouTube where it is pretty obvious that an OC'er has deliberately tried to bait police for the purpose of recording and posting the incident, it kinda rubs me the wrong way and makes me uncomfortable. An incidental, unexpected encounter where the OC'er was going about his business in a normal fashion when he is stopped is one thing, but a deliberate attempt to bait police simply to cause a heated exchange for posting is not something I like to see happen. It has been my take that this does not work in our favor.

With that said, I ran across something posted by an individual over a week ago that really gave me pause and got me to thinking. I don't have the answer to this and have not formed any sort of opinion about it either so I thought I would just throw it out there for kicks. I also don't think this violates the rules of these forums but if it does, I expect this thread to be closed or removed.
'
What this individual said when this topic was raised was this. "So how do you feel about police setting bait cars?"

He makes an interesting point. Police do deliberately bait people in an attempt to weed out criminal activity so why should'nt citizens bait police to weed out the bad apples? This was his position and frankly from the surface, it make sense. We should monitor the actions of our public servants more than we do and this IS one way to do it.

But as I said, I don't have the answer and I am pretty neutral on this one. What say you people?"

In this particular video, the guy had a clear chip on his shoulder. His intent was painfully obvious; he could take a lesson in subtlety.

When one compares officers baiting citizens to citizens baiting officers, one must remember that officers have the ability to arrest, and citizens do not. Sure, there's that whole citizens arrest thing, but I don't see that working too well when a citizen tries to arrest an officer.

One good thing about this video, though:

It's one more record of an officer supporting 2nd amendment rights. You'll note that the officer thanked the guy for making his job easier and playing a positive role in reducing crime. On the whole, I still view it as a minor win.

"reasonable suspicion" is a step lower than "probable cause" and briefly detaining a person like this officer did is not an arrest, and checking the weapon for full auto would fall under the reasonable suspicion.

This guy that makes these videos starts off making himself sound confrontational right off the bat. You know the officer has to be thinking, og god, another of of these knuckleheads wasting my time

If citizens are going to bait cops to weed out bad apples, then they need better training before they do that. Randomly yelling things like "it's my right", "I don't consent to searches", and other catchphrases you commonly hear in these videos does not help the cause.

In the first video the officer obviously had some good training in how to handle these situations. Too bad we don't have the same level of training for the people holding the video camera.

i saw several violations of civil rights. the LEO is BSing like crazy. the only way to tell if a firearm is a fully auto is to pull the trigger to see if it will fire more than one round at a time.

Good cops. If you want to exercise your 2nd amendment rights go ahead. Please try not to antagonize the cops or the public. There is no need to carry around a weapon that looks like it could be fully automatic...what are you...Rambo? Crap...go get a bowie knife as well.

Carry your pistol, semi or revolver, and carry it concealed if you have a permit. That way nobody gets upset, you are protecting yourself, and frankly no one gives a crap if you got a gun or not (unless your live on the left coast). All these guys are doing is acting like special ops dudes. Crap why not carry every firearm you own because it is your right. Why does someone with a gun want to draw attention to themselves anyway. The purpose of having a firearm is not to boldly go where no man has gone before...but it is for self protection, hunting, hobby, and collector items. Stop making every firearm owner look like a goof ball from "Stripes".

heyrakes wrote:i saw several violations of civil rights. the LEO is BSing like crazy. the only way to tell if a firearm is a fully auto is to pull the trigger to see if it will fire more than one round at a time.

You obviousy weren't paying enough attention, at about the 2:20 mark the officer did check the trigger, he had the magazine removed. It was a totally professional encounter on the offcer's part in my opinion.

lizjimbo wrote:Good cops. If you want to exercise your 2nd amendment rights go ahead. Please try not to antagonize the cops or the public. There is no need to carry around a weapon that looks like it could be fully automatic...what are you...Rambo? Crap...go get a bowie knife as well.

Carry your pistol, semi or revolver, and carry it concealed if you have a permit. That way nobody gets upset, you are protecting yourself, and frankly no one gives a crap if you got a gun or not (unless your live on the left coast). All these guys are doing is acting like special ops dudes. Crap why not carry every firearm you own because it is your right. Why does someone with a gun want to draw attention to themselves anyway. The purpose of having a firearm is not to boldly go where no man has gone before...but it is for self protection, hunting, hobby, and collector items. Stop making every firearm owner look like a goof ball from "Stripes".

A post I agree with. I have been carrying for over 20 years and have never had a bad experience with law enforcement over a weapon because I tell them up front what I have instead of having a chip on my shoulder.
I do not like the attention an unconcealed weapon brings and I certainly never parade around with my AR looking for trouble. People have the right to carry openly, but they need to do so responsibly.

I think the officers were perfectly professional, and did their job. They did not demand "papers" or identification, they just wanted to follow up on a call and make sure that it is not fully auto. Also he said in the end (and I am paraphrasing) that we like that you guys are exercising your right... no one is going to try to commit a crime.

I have three things to say:

1) The gun may have been a select fire (Class 3) weapon - Why is it important, a safety issue and how does this possibility demand a police inspection? There are several handguns that can be fully automatic as well. So what.

2) If (I say when) things get so shitty that I feel that a shouldered rifle is a personal security benefit to have on my person, I don't see a problem with it. It is also perfectly legal. The police feel the need all the time. Is that excessive? No. Why? Because it is more effective than a pistol and they "want to go home safe each night." Fine. I agree with both points and they ALSO APPLY TO ME!

3) These kids were asshatish and the cop was awesome.

If these radical pro gun guys would join a good board like this and talk to their local departments, it would help the cause much better. There are officers out there that don't know all the laws, but if you set up a meeting to talk to a commanding officer to get their take on a specific law (open carry for example) somewhere during the discussion someone may learn something. Just as in the first video, the officer invited them down to the department to learn, not just about laws but also firearms in general.

These guys keep saying it's their right to carry, but this right has a lot of stipulations. You can't carry in a church, school, government building, airport.. or anyplace that says in writing you can't carry. You can't own if your a felon, you can't point a gun at anyone or anything... You have the right to breath air and that's about all, everything else is a privilege and if we're not careful and keep pushing the boundaries to prove points, this right may be taken away.

Education is the key, and if everyone started carrying their rifles out with them, the first thing that will change is no more open carry for your city or state. Hopefully we'll always be alright in VA, but it's a never ending battle as the larger liberal cities/counties grow. Back in 2010 out of the top 20 most liberal areas of the, VA had two Alexandria and Arlington. The only other state that had more was CA with three... and I bet these videos are not filmed in CA!