Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

So, I had some time to kill and went to the beach at the Potomac River where the Route 301 Nice Bridge crosses the river. Two kids in tow and my .38 special on my belt. We passed by a Maryland Transit Authority (MTA) car on the way to park at the beach and I thought nothing of it. Parked the truck and we got out. The kids were looking for shells on the beach and I was wandering around with them. About 5 minutes later, I hear "Excuse me, Sir". I turned and there was the MTA deputy (or whatever they're called).

MTA: "May I see your handgun permit?"
Me: "I don't need a permit."
MTA: "And why don't you need a permit?"
Me: "I can open carry in Virginia without a permit - anyone who is legally allowed to own a firearm (no felonies, no domestic assault, etc), may carry a firearm openly in Virginia."

He let me know that he had called the local Sheriff's Office and that someone was on their way and I let him know that if he was going to sit on the Virginia side of the bridge that he should know the law. He asked me why I need to carry a gun, and I asked him why he needed to carry one. Well of course he needed one because he's a police officer and I need one because I never know what kind of freaky idiot I'm going to encounter at the scummy waters of the Potomac River.

The local deputy showed up and let the MTA guy know that I was within the law. Then they both let me know that I shouldn't be Open Carrying in the park unless I wanted to draw negative attention and that I should get a Concealed Handgun Permit. I told the county guy that I had one. When MTA guy heard that, he accused me of lying to him and telling him that I didn't have one when he asked me. I said "No, you asked to see my handgun permit, and I told you that I didn't need one to Open Carry my firearm". He pressed on that point again about me lying to him and I pressed back and he said he didn't want to argue about it.

Long story short, the local county deputy was really good about it and he let the Maryland guy know the law (which is exactly what I told him as well). The Maryland guy was pretty much a jerk about it all, essentially telling me that I shouldn't be carrying a gun in a park with my kids.

So, it was an exciting 15 minutes and my first discussion with police about my carrying of a firearm. I may have pressed the guy a little hard, but I knew he was outside his jurisdiction and that he clearly didn't know the law. I'm glad the county deputy came and straightened it all out. Again, the deputy was really nice about everything.

Oh yeah, then after the deputy left, the MTA guy told me

"You know, when I came down here to check on you, instead of just asking to speak with you, I could have put pulled my gun and ordered you prone on the ground and put you in cuffs until the Sheriff's deputy got here."

I was good and kept my mouth shut about that one and just nodded my head.

I'm thinking that there would have been fireworks that I could have seen from my house! LOL. Keep the faith brotha! Don't let those silly Transit boys hold you down. LOL

Really though, Good to see you handled the day well and with out much incident.

AIG, know that area well; well I know the VA side well - as the wifey and I head to Colonial Beach as often as we can. The Maryland guy was a cad, good thing the VA deputy was professional.

While I have not had any encounters (while OC'g) with VA LEO's I have been around them and they have noticed the SIG - all non-events.

This isn't a "dig" but when I was a member out at Maryland Small Arms Range (good folks, high turnover); I actually used to ask for end-lanes because of the folks in there from Maryland who were shooting like it was in the latest StevieSeagal movie, complete with varying grips (other than straight up 1200). I always felt more at easy when the BoyScouts had their SatAM merit badge runs with the .22's or if I recognized a set of "white-walls" (Andrews is about 5mile away and BAF, Navy Yard and USMC base are all about 10miles out.

... to think that the wife and I were under contract to buy not one but two houses out in that land of the un-free....

Probably "preaching to the knowledgable choir" here, but I hope that you got the MD's guys badge/name and follow-up with his CoC.

hmm.. Actually, I didn't get his name and badge number. I looked at his name several times, but I'm terrible with names

I made sure to let him know that I was glad that he learned something today

you kept your cool! I don't think i could have with that last statement of ""You know, when I came down here to check on you, instead of just asking to speak with you, I could have put you prone on the ground and cuffed you until the Sheriff's deputy got here."

WRW wrote:

06bolton5pt3 wrote:you kept your cool! I don't think i could have with that last statement of ""You know, when I came down here to check on you, instead of just asking to speak with you, I could have put you prone on the ground and cuffed you until the Sheriff's deputy got here."

I've gotta ask...wouldn't that be considered assault/battery?

I'm pretty sure that had he done that, he'd have found himself on the defendant side of the courtroom. However, being my first such encounter, I didn't want to press my luck.

allingeneral wrote:

WRW wrote:

06bolton5pt3 wrote:you kept your cool! I don't think i could have with that last statement of ""You know, when I came down here to check on you, instead of just asking to speak with you, I could have put you prone on the ground and cuffed you until the Sheriff's deputy got here."

I've gotta ask...wouldn't that be considered assault/battery?

I'm pretty sure that had he done that, he'd have found himself on the defendant side of the courtroom. However, being my first such encounter, I didn't want to press my luck.

Especially if he was outside his jurisdiction. Sounds like the MTA got embarassed and was letting it out on ya.

allingeneral wrote:

WRW wrote:

06bolton5pt3 wrote:you kept your cool! I don't think i could have with that last statement of ""You know, when I came down here to check on you, instead of just asking to speak with you, I could have put you prone on the ground and cuffed you until the Sheriff's deputy got here."

I've gotta ask...wouldn't that be considered assault/battery?

I'm pretty sure that had he done that, he'd have found himself on the defendant side of the courtroom. However, being my first such encounter, I didn't want to press my luck.

oh yeah he would be for sure. But i understand not wanting to press your luck

My take is that would be a good place for an OC picnic. Just make sure MTA is nearby. What right does he have to enforce MD laws in VA? Or even enforce VA laws in VA. His authority ends at the end of that bridge or at the edge of the water.

My suggestion is to email or call MTA and explain that while you don't recall the name of the officer, all of their officers need to be trained on VA law if they are going sit on the VA side of the bridge. We are expected to know the laws of other states if we have a firearm with us in those states, they should know VA laws if they want to sit on our side of the bridge.

VCDL may find this encounter interesting.

I think Philip Van Cleave at the VCDL would be interested in hearing about your OC experience, if you don't mind sending him an email.

You can PM Philip at VCDLPresident or PM me if you would like his email address.

Call me a pansy but this is one reason I dont OC here in NOVA. I do sometimes when I'm out of the city but in general I feel much more comfortable in CC wherever I happen to be. You never know when LE or more likely a citizen will harass you out of pure ignorance or just plain spite.

Great story, Rick. Good example for the rest of us to follow. And I agree with Gary. Sounds like a great place for an OC picnic which I would indeed attend and OC. Groups are much harder to harass.

This brings up an interesting point for boating. In VA we are covered if we are on a river or lake that is completely within VA. What about the Potomac river? None of it belongs to VA, the state line ends at the shorline. Based on that we cannot have firearms in a boat on the Potomac can we?

Moccasin wrote:This brings up an interesting point for boating. In VA we are covered if we are on a river or lake that is completely within VA. What about the Potomac river? None of it belongs to VA, the state line ends at the shorline. Based on that we cannot have firearms in a boat on the Potomac can we?

I would agree with that. I hope they never search my boat. Boating is one of the main reasons that I purchased a firearm. I got a scare spending the night with my family out on Lake Anna a couple years ago - some guys spotlighting my boat at 2am...

I won't go out on the boat without my revolver.

That's why I brought this up, wasn't sure if you had considered the possible problems on the Potomac. I certainly hadn't considered it being a problem, but I fish Lake Anna so it doesn't matter to me.

Not to get the thread off course, but do you fish stripers on Lake Anna? I have wanted to fish the lake, but never have gotten around to it. Sounds like another good place for an OC picnic!

I have sent a message to MTA and to Mr. Van Cleave. The online MTA comment form would only allow 1500 characters, so I had to abbreviate the complaint a bit and let them know that their guys should know some VA laws if they're going to spend time in Virginia.

allingeneral wrote:Not to get the thread off course, but do you fish stripers on Lake Anna? I have wanted to fish the lake, but never have gotten around to it. Sounds like another good place for an OC picnic!

I've tried but in years of fishing it we've only caught 1 stripper. I fish for largemouth, anything else I catch is an accident. Would be a good place for an OC picnic BUT IIRC out illustrious governor has decreed that OC in a state park is a no-no, CC is fine though.

Moccasin wrote:That's why I brought this up, wasn't sure if you had considered the possible problems on the Potomac. I certainly hadn't considered it being a problem, but I fish Lake Anna so it doesn't matter to me.

There are indeed reciprocity agreements between MD and VA on the Potomac wrt fish/game. Not sure how they affect this issue.

Moccasin wrote:

allingeneral wrote:Not to get the thread off course, but do you fish stripers on Lake Anna? I have wanted to fish the lake, but never have gotten around to it. Sounds like another good place for an OC picnic!

I've tried but in years of fishing it we've only caught 1 stripper. I fish for largemouth, anything else I catch is an accident. Would be a good place for an OC picnic BUT IIRC out illustrious governor has decreed that OC in a state park is a no-no, CC is fine though.

You need to go out by the Bay Bridge Tunnel for some serious stripper fishing