Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

GS78, I think that we would get along real well. DK, you and Young can live down this way anytime. Remember, triple tap.
Bill

zephyp wrote:The problem with carrying concealed in a business with a sign clearly posted is you are indeed breaking the law. You have been informed tacitly that no guns are allowed. The law doesnt say how you have to be informed. Anything can happen while you are in the store. So what if you are forced to defend yourself - you're going to be charged. What happens if you have a health incident...what if what if...then you become the criminal.

This is a really touchy subject. We've all heard the line "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away" - and it's been established that police have no legal obligation to protect individual citizens ( here and here) - now this is not any type of blemish against LEOs - my significant other is LEO, and she understands my rant.... They simply cannot be everywhere and protect everyone, and some people don't seem to understand this... So law-abiding citizens who are intelligent and take responsibility for their own actions do so in one fashion by carrying firearms. So what happens when you enter an establishment that's got multiple doors? What happens if you walk through the door that's not marked? If it's not marked, does a written policy on their website suffice to be legal to patrons without internet access because it's "policy"? That's the problem with all the what-ifs - you can go on forever.

GS78 wrote:...... what if you had to defend yourself or someone else, you would be charged? yeah, perhaps you would, but you wouldn't be DEAD.

Exactly.

Afrikaner82 wrote:I personally believe that if I am in a GFZ whether carrying or not if someone starts shooting I would be within my legal right to sue them for every penny because the infringed upon my 2A right and did not protect me by posting a sign.

I happen to know a location that is private property but only marked in a few locations - and they have their own "security"... So guess what doesn't make it into the news? The amount of crime that happens there because their own "security" force deals with it, and it's not reported through the police as crime statistics. See a problem with that? Everyone thinks this location is a safe place to go, drop off their kids, and spend a day... But if something happened and someone started shooting - would you rather die and be able to sue (or shall I say, your family be able to sue), or live and possibly be charged with trespassing? Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.... and yes, I avoid those places at all costs, just like GS78 stated - I don't go seeking them out.

Afrikaner82 wrote:I personally believe that if I am in a GFZ whether carrying or not if someone starts shooting I would be within my legal right to sue them for every penny because the infringed upon my 2A right and did not protect me by posting a sign. I believe if you post a GFZ sign then you are responsible for everyone's protection.

I know someone is going to say that is what the police is for but it is private property so the owner or businesses is responsible for what happens on the property.

Now all what I said is my 2 cents.

I agree with you in principle. Legally though it would be the position of the store that you have the option to shop elsewhere. In principle though, if someone else takes away your right to self preservation, or even subjects you to a higher probability of danger they should be held accountable in the event you suffer some harm. ie;- you are summoned to court to be a witness, through no fault of your own, and no direct involvement in any crime , you happened to see a crime in progress and you are the states witness by subpoena, you are forced to comply and be unarmed when you go to give your deposition. Lets say the worst happens and you are injured or killed by an armed assailant .....is the state going to be held responsible ? (I realize this is a stretch,but you would be forced to give your testimony by the writ, forced to be unarmed by the law, so ?)

SgtBill wrote:GS78, I think that we would get along real well. DK, you and Young can live down this way anytime. Remember, triple tap.
Bill

Thanks Bill. I hope to make that a reality one day. The mozambique technique. Heard it from my good friends in Keysville first...