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Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

General discussion - Feel free to discuss anything you want here. Firearm related is preferred, but not required

Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby 001 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 01:20:54

First is a question? Is there certain details of what you are allowed in open carry? Besides no school grounds, government property, courthouses, military installations, and any building with a " No Carry" or picture of no guns, etc etc... I mean is it allowed to be chambered? What if your shirt is covering it a bit, or if it's holstered.. I don't know the specifics

Also I hear you are allowed to carry in your glove box but is it not allowed to be chambered? I read AMMO and GUN must be separate...

Second : Is it wrong for people to go out and open carry as a statement? Maybe not a statement, but to bring attention to themselves. I see youtube videos of people.. Seriously.. Carrying AK-47's and loading up with a rifle and a pistol and just walking down main street with a video camera.. I'm sorry but this makes me ANGRY! It's a right we have all fought so hard for and their is always some idiot that wants to try to push the limits.

Am I wrong to think this? Please correct me if I am wrong, please inform me of why this is right? Maybe a side I do not see..

I understand normalcy, protection, and the right to protest, but to show off and blab? This is something that boggles me and I would love to see people's sides on this.


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:23:53

You are basically asking for a full explanation of all the firearm laws of the Commonwealth. You need a lawyer, not an internet forum.

Besides no school grounds
you can carry in your car on school grounds.
government property
You can carry on some gov't property.

001 wrote:" No Carry"
I mean is it allowed to be chambered? What if your shirt is covering it a bit, or if it's holstered.. I don't know the specifics


What part of no is confusing? If a private property owner says no guns, they mean NO. Zip, zero, nada, zilch. Not loaded, not unloaded, not disassembled, no possession of __ANY__ kind.

There is a restaurant chain that goes so far as to prohibit the POLICE to posses firearms in their place of business. Unless the cop is on official business, they have to abide by the property owners request, and either leave, or remove the firearm from the premises.

Also I hear you are allowed to carry in your glove box but is it not allowed to be chambered? I read AMMO and GUN must be separate...


Simple answer, No CHP, then no loaded gun hidden from view.

Second : Is it wrong for people to go out and open carry as a statement? Maybe not a statement, but to bring attention to themselves. I see youtube videos of people.. Seriously.. Carrying AK-47's and loading up with a rifle and a pistol and just walking down main street with a video camera.. I'm sorry but this makes me ANGRY! It's a right we have all fought so hard for and their is always some idiot that wants to try to push the limits.


You're never going to get an answer to this, only an argument from people on each side of the position.

Am I wrong to think this? Please correct me if I am wrong, please inform me of why this is right? Maybe a side I do not see..


Did you fail to read the constitution when you were in high school?

I understand normalcy, protection, and the right to protest, but to show off and blab? This is something that boggles me and I would love to see people's sides on this.


Any right can be taken to extremes and will not be taken well by the general public.

Warren Jeffs is a great example...


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby ProShooter » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:40:53

OP - you need this class - http://proactiveshooters.com/general-course-information-2/intro-to-concealed-carry-in-va/.

We only offer it a few times a year and the next one is April 14th.
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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby 001 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:37:16

I understand you are expressing your opinion. Though I just want to state:

The part I wrote on where you are not allowed to carry. I know the specifics of those laws. Which in turn was the reason I wrote " besides " such and such.. and " etc. " I'm asking details that you wouldn't normally hear, something you may know from what you have heard or experienced about OC..

My question was whether you are allowed to OC with the weapon chambered.. Details on OC such as that.. Which I have read, as of now that yes you are.

The topic of carrying your firearm in your vehicle. I read maybe 30 articles this morning about this, and that I can see being a topic to discuss with a lawyer. Though a lawyer spoke in this article and it sounds that nobody has an answer to it. ( Best article I have found )
Mainly this : The definition of "secured" a whole thread on an experience and details.. Though no solid answer ( a flip of a coin was the legality of it ) The only defense in this article was the revise of the law when "Secured" to "Locked" to "Secured" happened with the new law in 2010.
virginia-laws/your-definition-secured-glove-box-carry-t10838.html
I maybe have forgotten the answer to it. It was mentioned by someone in the article that the new law did not state whether it had to be unloaded when "secured", though was hoping for maybe new insight from maybe new members possibly. To be honest it has me more confused as it seems it conflicts with other laws.

As for the rest, I know my constitution. I guess I just seen for the first time people on youtube SEARCHING for LE so they could walk by them hoping to be stopped... For attention. I no longer want in that fight as it is people doing what they will do.
I was more wondering if people agree it could threaten that right. If not, then maybe some understanding. I believe in understanding both sides before I defend a belief.


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:48:51

001 wrote:The topic of carrying your firearm in your vehicle. I read maybe 30 articles this morning about this, and that I can see being a topic to discuss with a lawyer. Though a lawyer spoke in this article and it sounds that nobody has an answer to it. ( Best article I have found )
Mainly this : The definition of "secured" a whole thread on an experience and details.. Though no solid answer ( a flip of a coin was the legality of it ) The only defense in this article was the revise of the law when "Secured" to "Locked" to "Secured" happened with the new law in 2010.
virginia-laws/your-definition-secured-glove-box-carry-t10838.html
I maybe have forgotten the answer to it. It was mentioned by someone in the article that the new law did not state whether it had to be unloaded when "secured", though was hoping for maybe new insight from maybe new members possibly. To be honest it has me more confused as it seems it conflicts with other laws.


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

Note the in the vehicle law only applies to handguns.
Code: Select all
10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.


For non-handguns you would need to be in compliance with the other sections which require...
Code: Select all
provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported


I was more wondering if people agree it could threaten that right. If not, then maybe some understanding. I believe in understanding both sides before I defend a belief.


It can/could absolutely threaten the right, look what happened in CA with regard to open carry.


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby 001 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:07:51

This was my point I was absolutely searching for... and:

"It can/could absolutely threaten the right, look what happened in CA with regard to open carry."

This is exactly what I was mad about.. I believe in common sense..

In the article it seems that it is just dangerous to even try carrying w/o a CHP in the car loaded.. I was hoping for maybe new information and any suggestions if I was to do it.. Is it even worth trying yet.. For example the guy in the article is correct it seems.. Though knowledgeable LE and Judges is the flip of the coin I mentioned.. Also how much money you have for a lawyer..

Just wish there was a straight answer..


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:22:43

001 wrote:This is exactly what I was mad about.. I believe in common sense..

I believe common sense is a mythical thing... like unicorns, and leprechauns.

In the article it seems that it is just dangerous to even try carrying w/o a CHP in the car loaded.. I was hoping for maybe new information and any suggestions if I was to do it.. Is it even worth trying yet..

Just wish there was a straight answer..


get a CHP, makes many of the questionable situations much less so.


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby 001 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:40:12

The confusion I will try to point out.. Is whether b3 and b5 conflict with b10.. B3 and B5 I think need revised to accommodate b10's statement. Otherwise I see the argument that B10 states "Handguns". Though then "secured" again comes into play with how the court sees it.. That's where the worry for me comes from.. Unless you got the money for Non-Appointed lawyer..

"get a CHP, makes many of the questionable situations much less so."

I had a situation where I was having a few drinks and was sober enough to walk home. I just happened to arrive at LE pulling someone over. I casually walked by without disturbing, the woman officer says " HEY! " I stopped, and she got mad I walked by her " Scene?" As soon as I spoke, she slapped handcuffs on me and said she was arresting me for DIP because she smelled alcohol on my breath.. I wasn't stuttering, tipping over, making a scene or anything.. It was 2am and cold.. I just wanted to get home. I didn't even look at them. So because of this I was denied my CHP, and it's ULTIMATELY frustrating.. ( Now have grudge with George Mason PD, but everybody does. )
I was told to I should try to appeal it ( even though it was Jan 2011 ) and see if I can do community service or something.

"Common Sense"

Hey! Don't give up.. It exists lol


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby AlanM » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:18:03

"There is a restaurant chain that goes so far as to prohibit the POLICE to posses firearms in their place of business. Unless the cop is on official business, they have to abide by the property owners request, and either leave, or remove the firearm from the premises."

Could you tell us which chain? Or PM me with the name?

I have an LEO acquaintance that I want to make sure I don't invite out to dinner to the wrong place since they're required to carry at all times.
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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:23:54

AlanM wrote:Could you tell us which chain? Or PM me with the name?


Buffalo wild wings, Sterling.


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby Chasbo00 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:06:38

With respect to carrying in a vehicle without a CHP, see para 10. in the below statute's exceptions:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

"10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel."

There have been reported instances where LE thought secured meant locked and charged someone; but, I don't think anyone has been convicted. The cases I'm aware of were dismissed before trial.

Regarding carrying a loaded vs. unloaded handgun without a CHP, very few laws make any distinction. Here is one that does. It concerns a carrying a loaded center-fire handgun with magazine capacity of more than 20 rounds or if it has been designed to accommodate a silencer (i.e. has a threaded barrel). Yet, it only applies to certain cities and counties in VA.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 18.2-287.4

"ยง 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor."
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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:34:28

Chasbo00 wrote:Regarding carrying a loaded vs. unloaded handgun without a CHP, very few laws make any distinction. Here is one that does. It concerns a carrying a loaded center-fire handgun with magazine capacity of more than 20 rounds or if it has been designed to accommodate a silencer (i.e. has a threaded barrel). Yet, it only applies to certain cities and counties in VA.


that section applies to RIFLES


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby Chasbo00 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:40:57

jdonovan wrote:
Chasbo00 wrote:Regarding carrying a loaded vs. unloaded handgun without a CHP, very few laws make any distinction. Here is one that does. It concerns a carrying a loaded center-fire handgun with magazine capacity of more than 20 rounds or if it has been designed to accommodate a silencer (i.e. has a threaded barrel). Yet, it only applies to certain cities and counties in VA.


that section applies to RIFLES


Pistols too. "to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that..."
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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 15:37:01

Chasbo00 wrote:Pistols too. "to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that..."


missed that piece... there are so few center-fire pistols that can handle >20 round mags.


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby Chasbo00 » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 16:03:15

jdonovan wrote:
Chasbo00 wrote:Pistols too. "to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that..."


missed that piece... there are so few center-fire pistols that can handle >20 round mags.


Just having a semi-auto, center-fire pistol with threaded barrel (designed to accommodate a silencer) is enough to qualify under this statute regardless of the pistol's magazine capacity.

I do see greater than 20-round pistol mags being used all the time at USPSA and some steel action pistol matches. But they are not at all common for defensive carry.
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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby steelheart » Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:59:17

i open carry. i always have mine loaded completely (one in the pipe). iv been stoped by police. iv let them know im open carrying. iv never had a problem except at walmart where an employee had a problem and the manager told them i have the right to carry. oh and #%*& buffalo wild wings. chilis has better food and service! and yes iv been waiting to say one in the pipe :hysterical:


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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby allingeneral » Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:22:03

F%#& Buffalo Wild Wings, indeed. They caused me enough of a problem one night when I was out with my family and some friends. It was a lesson well learned. Let me reiterate: F%#& Buffalo Wild Wings

Almost makes me want to register a new domain name F%#&BuffaloWildWings.com
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Re: Open Discuss - Open Carry and the limits

Postby SHMIV » Fri, 16 Mar 2012 02:05:31

allingeneral wrote:
F%#& Buffalo Wild Wings, indeed. They caused me enough of a problem one night when I was out with my family and some friends. It was a lesson well learned. Let me reiterate: F%#& Buffalo Wild Wings

Almost makes me want to register a new domain name F%#&BuffaloWildWings.com



Almost sounds as if you may be slightly annoyed at Buffalo Wild Wings...

I've never been there, but I have open carried in close vicinity to their premises.
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