Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

No big surprise here, I guess. But I do feel bad for all those gang bangers that won't have an M-1a under the Christmas tree this year.

Good thing that there are still plenty of AK's in the illegal gun market.

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Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09 ... -m-rifles/

By Maxim Lott
Published September 01, 2010
FoxNews.com


The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

"The transfer of such a large number of weapons -- 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines -- could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the spokesman told FoxNews.com.

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms."

Gun control advocates praised the Obama administration for taking security seriously.

"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

"Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."

M1 carbines can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.

"Anything that accepts an external magazine could accept a larger capacity magazine," Cox said.

"But the average number of rounds fired in the commission of a crime is somewhere between 1 and 2 … this issue just shows how little the administration understands about guns."

He called the administration's decision "a de facto gun ban, courtesy of Hillary Clinton's State Department."

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

According to the ATF Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it would normally be legal to import the M1s because they are more than 50 years old, meaning they qualify as "curios or relics." But because the guns were given to South Korea by the U.S. government, they fall under a special category that requires permission from the State Department before any sale.

Kopel said that he hopes the State Department spokesman's statement that it is working to "dispose" of the guns does not mean they want to melt them down.

"It seems to have this implication of destruction, which would be tremendously wasteful," he said. "These are guns that should be in the hands of American citizens for marksmanship and safety training."

Asked whether melting the guns down would be a good option, Henigan said: "Why let them into the country in the first place? If there is a legally sufficient way to keep them out, we think it's perfectly reasonable to do so."

Past administrations have also grappled with the issue of large-scale gun imports.

The Clinton administration blocked sales of M1s and other antiquated military weapons from the Philippines, Turkey and Pakistan. It also ended the practice of reselling used guns owned by federal agencies, ordering that they be melted down instead.

In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987.

A decision like that would be better for everyone, Cox said.

"M1s are used for target practice. For history buffs, they're highly collectible. We're going to continue to make sure that this backdoor effort that infringes not only on lawful commerce but on the Second Amendment is rectified."

Henigan disagrees.

"They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.

The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.

Well I would say obama and all his henchmen can kiss my patottie but I have to report to them tomorrow so I will refrain; however, they are all twit moron dweebs without a doubt. Especially that holder guy. Is it me? That guy has no chin whatsoever...none of them do.

I'd be curious how many gang punks really would spend the money on a rifle of this size and round capacity. I've personally never seen a gangland episode that had the punks doing drive-by's with an M1 Garand. That would almost be amusing to see.

Of course, the Congressional Democrats'll just point the finger at the Obama Administration and say, "He did it! He did it! Wasn't me! Wasn't me!" And, naturally, they'll do nothing whatsoever to change that misguided policy. The Bradys are near-to-orgasmic over this, as you'd expect. "Even though these rifles are old, they were used for a military purpose! The sky will fall if we let these military ASSAULT GARANDS back in the country!"

Par for the course for the anti-freedom Obama Administration.

Where I used to live, there was a ghetto neighborhood full of drugs, etc. This was in the early 1980's. Bloods and Crips were rampant in this neighborhood. Their main weapons of choice? Revolvers...not .30-06 deer rifles nor M1 Carbines. Yes, there were some full-auto AK's and Uzis, too...smuggled in from outside of the country illegally.

Gee, we just can't figure out how to dispose of them.

How about DCM you dweeb morons!

'They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.'
The Garand takes a clip, not a mag, and they are 8 rounds (2 rounds short of a Clinton 10).
Uninformed on everything except Marx, Alinsky, and Liberation Theology.

I believe this is already a thread. It was mentioned that in a strange turn of events Obama is looking out for tax money because these were actuality given to south Korea. So selling them back would be near robbery. They could have given them to CMP and no one would have looked twice.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:I believe this is already a thread. It was mentioned that in a strange turn of events Obama is looking out for tax money because these were actuality given to south Korea. So selling them back would be near robbery. They could have given them to CMP and no one would have looked twice.

Korea's probably already been robbing us, since we gave them a lot of rifles as loaners, and they bought a few of them (ones they bought they can resell). They've sold us back a lot of rifles over the years. More than they actually bought? I wonder.

They've been unable/unwilling to produce evidence that they paid for the guns. Kinda suspect there.

Ultimately, however, the reality of the situation is trumped by the perception, which is that the administration is meddling in the importation of American guns that would be for sale to the American public, and all this comes out two months ahead of a national election. That's enough to get edgy gun owners all wound up and out to campaign, donate, and vote.

Diomed wrote:

Jakeiscrazy wrote:
They've been unable/unwilling to produce evidence that they paid for the guns. Kinda suspect there.

Not really. I mean, do you know how old that purchase order would have to be by now??? I'd lay good odds that the US would unable to produce evidence that those were ever even sold at this point. I mean, maybe there's something buried in the archives somewhere, but that'd probably take some digging!

chfaunce wrote:Not really. I mean, do you know how old that purchase order would have to be by now??? I'd lay good odds that the US would unable to produce evidence that those were ever even sold at this point. I mean, maybe there's something buried in the archives somewhere, but that'd probably take some digging!

The DOD was supposed to record the serial number of everything sold out through the foreign military sales program, in part so that situations like this could be avoided.

Whether those records survive, I don't know. But in the absence of any evidence proving that the ROK owns the guns, I'm fine with the US saying they're still ours until proven otherwise. I see no need to allow the Koreans to profit off of our generosity.

Diomed wrote:

chfaunce wrote:Not really. I mean, do you know how old that purchase order would have to be by now??? I'd lay good odds that the US would unable to produce evidence that those were ever even sold at this point. I mean, maybe there's something buried in the archives somewhere, but that'd probably take some digging!

The DOD was supposed to record the serial number of everything sold out through the foreign military sales program, in part so that situations like this could be avoided.

Whether those records survive, I don't know. But in the absence of any evidence proving that the ROK owns the guns, I'm fine with the US saying they're still ours until proven otherwise. I see no need to allow the Koreans to profit off of our generosity.

The DoD loses billions in currency just a few years ago. What makes you think they could properly track a few rifles?

gunderwood wrote:The DoD loses billions in currency just a few years ago. What makes you think they could properly track a few rifles?

Oh bull...DoD's ability to track items is sharper than a rapist's wit...

Well, if we *gave* them to the ROK, and they're thus still *our* guns, then the ROK should be giving them back to us. And the Obama Administration should put them right in the hands of the CMP, despite the extremist Brady Bunch's bleatings. I have yet to hear of a gang-banger using an M1 of either type in a drive-by shooting.

gunderwood wrote:The DoD loses billions in currency just a few years ago. What makes you think they could properly track a few rifles?

Beats me, I am always amazed at what the government keeps versus what they throw away...

If it happened to have been cases of $400.00 hammers, the gubment would have jumped on the deal.

Vahunter wrote:If it happened to have been cases of $400.00 hammers, the gubment would have jumped on the deal.

Nah. We goes for the premium brands. Nothing but the best for the gubment...