Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **MWhiteDesigns** » Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:50:00

Good morning,
So after a heated debate with a friend, I have come here for some clarification.

Fireams in the state of Virginia are NOT registered, except for machine guns. There isn't even a process to register firearms, nor a database correct?

If forwhatever reason a gun was found at a crime scene, i would assume law enforcement would track the serial to the manufacturer, they would track who they sold it to and then law enforcement would ask the dealer to pull the paperwork for that gun, correct?

What is also the definition of an "illgal" gun. I'm assuming its a gun in whichsomeon isn't legally allowed to own or carry but is?

by **OakRidgeStars** » Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:00:36

MWhiteDesigns wrote:Fireams in the state of Virginia are NOT registered, except for machine guns. There isn't even a process to register firearms, nor a database correct?

Correct.

MWhiteDesigns wrote:If for whatever reason a gun was found at a crime scene, i would assume law enforcement would track the serial to the manufacturer, they would track who they sold it to and then law enforcement would ask the dealer to pull the paperwork for that gun, correct?

Correct again.

MWhiteDesigns wrote:What is also the definition of an "illegal" gun. I'm assuming its a gun in which someone isn't legally allowed to own or carry but is?

For the anti-gun crowd, a gun in the hands of anyone other than law enforcement is considered "illegal". As we all know, it's not the gun that's illegal. It's the illegal actions of the criminal that's illegal.

by **wally626** » Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:48:27

An illegal gun would be one that is not allowed under VA law. Very limited number of those. Sawed off shotguns and rifles, striker 12 shotguns and plastic guns (minimum metal requirement)

by **totes6** » Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:22:05

wally626 wrote:An illegal gun would be one that is not allowed under VA law. Very limited number of those. Sawed off shotguns and rifles, striker 12 shotguns and plastic guns (minimum metal requirement)

sawed off rifles and shotguns are legal under VA law. They are just NFA items, which means more paperwork with the ATF and about 3 to 6 months of waiting for them to process it. Not sure what would qualify as "scientific purposes" and I know for sure I am not willing to test it to find out :doh:

§ 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.

Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.

you are right about the striker 12 shotguns or other similar shotguns:

§ 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.

Interesting that the politicians always seem to get their info from hollywood, the only place a plastic gun would actually work:

§ 18.2-308.5. Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited.

It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, transfer or possess any plastic firearm. As used in this section, "plastic firearm" means any firearm, including machine guns and sawed-off shotguns as defined in this chapter, containing less than 3.7 ounces of electromagnetically detectable metal in the barrel, slide, cylinder, frame or receiver of which, when subjected to inspection by X-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts its shape. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony.

by **wally626** » Wed, 21 Dec 2011 19:31:54

§ 18.2-300. Possession or use of "sawed-off" shotgun or rifle.

A. Possession or use of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of a crime of violence is a Class 2 felony.

B. Possession or use of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for any other purpose, except as permitted by this article and official use by those persons permitted possession by § 18.2-303, is a Class 4 felony.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-268.2; 1968, c. 661; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1978, c. 710; 1992, c. 580.)

§ 18.2-303. What article does not apply to.

The provisions of this article shall not be applicable to:

(1) The manufacture for, and sale of, "sawed-off" shotguns or "sawed-off" rifles to the armed forces or law-enforcement officers of the United States or of any state or of any political subdivision thereof, or the transportation required for that purpose; and

(2) "Sawed-off" shotguns, "sawed-off" rifles and automatic arms issued to the National Guard of Virginia by the United States or such arms used by the United States Army or Navy or in the hands of troops of the national guards of other states or territories of the United States passing through Virginia, or such arms as may be provided for the officers of the State Police or officers of penal institutions.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-268.5; 1968, c. 661; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1992, c. 580.)

The exemption in 18.2-300 links to 18.2-303 but not 18.2-303.1 so I missed it. I thought I remembered sawed off rifles and shotguns being allowed as NFA but missed the link.

by **wally626** » Wed, 21 Dec 2011 19:37:18

Interesting that the politicians always seem to get their info from hollywood, the only place a plastic gun would actually work:

All plastic would be tough but a single shot non-metallic gun would not be hard to build. The Myth busters made a canons from duct tape and from wood.

by **jdonovan** » Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:47:30

§ 18.2-308.5. Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited.

It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, transfer or possess any plastic firearm. As used in this section, "plastic firearm" means any firearm, including machine guns and sawed-off shotguns as defined in this chapter, containing less than 3.7 ounces of electromagnetically detectable metal in the barrel, slide, cylinder, frame or receiver of which, when subjected to inspection by X-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts its shape. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony.

Hmm so if I strip any modern polymer handgun of its barrel/slide and leave the house with it... its a felony right? The frame is the firearm, and there is no way the frame has 3.7 oz of metal in it.

by **totes6** » Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:43:02

jdonovan wrote:
§ 18.2-308.5. Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited.

It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, transfer or possess any plastic firearm. As used in this section, "plastic firearm" means any firearm, including machine guns and sawed-off shotguns as defined in this chapter, containing less than 3.7 ounces of electromagnetically detectable metal in the barrel, slide, cylinder, frame or receiver of which, when subjected to inspection by X-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts its shape. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony.

Hmm so if I strip any modern polymer handgun of its barrel/slide and leave the house with it... its a felony right? The frame is the firearm, and there is no way the frame has 3.7 oz of metal in it.

That was pretty much what I was thinking. And normally I would :hysterical:

at any prosecutor who brought charges against someone for doing that, but the way courts have been ruling recently, I doubt the ruling would be in favor of the gun owner.

by **Diomed** » Fri, 23 Dec 2011 01:13:31

wally626 wrote:An illegal gun would be one that is not allowed under VA law. Very limited number of those. Sawed off shotguns and rifles, striker 12 shotguns and plastic guns (minimum metal requirement)

I didn't even know about the plastic gun law, but it figures. Another piece of Wilder-era hysteria, like the drum-fed shotgun ban.

What's great is that plastic guns are and were already federally illegal (18 USC 922(p)). The Virginia statute seems to be even more restrictive than the federal law - I think jdonovan may have a point, I don't know if the standard Glock frame has 3.2 oz of metal in it.

Yet another law that needs to be repealed.

by **jdonovan** » Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:59:57

Diomed wrote: I don't know if the standard Glock frame has 3.2 oz of metal in it.

A G26 (empty) weighs only 20 oz. Given the weight of barrel/slide vs frame I'm going to stand on there is no way there is almost 4 oz of metal in the frame.... heck I doubt the frame itself even weighs 6 oz.

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