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Common Sense and Due Caution

General discussion - Feel free to discuss anything you want here. Firearm related is preferred, but not required

Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby SHMIV » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:12:16

Gunderwood... he mustn't sell them, lest he be as idiotic as the rest of us. He must, instead, take them all far, far away from civilization, then destroy it all.

OP- sounds like you've gotten a bunch of useful info. Awesome. :clap:
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 04:05:53

Apparently ignorance is bliss. A background check is better then no check at all....I hope you all NEVER feel the pain of having someone you love killed by a weapon that was sold pers2pers that could of easily been stopped due to the background check by selling through a dealer. RIP Jessica
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 04:22:31

And to SHMIV......statistically, many more guns have been used in violent crimes then any of the items you listed combined...by 1000 fold....and if you have an asset(i.e. a background check) to aid you in determining if someone should posses what you are selling...then you should use it. To me its just a reverse of carfax.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby SHMIV » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:48:56

Ahh, yes. Carfax. I've utilized Carfax in the purchase of two vehicles. In both vehicles, I later found evidence of prior, and somewhat major, accidents.

I never said anything against the use of background checks. Use them, if you so desire.

My major annoyance was with your referring to folks as idiots for failure to maintain your personal standard. And, by scrolling up and re-reading, I gather that you are very emotionally attached to this issue.

Infidel, I am sorry for your loss. Your anger, however, is very much misplaced.
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 13:38:49

I'm not mad. I just don't understand how you wouldn't do it as an extra look into the buyer...15-30 bucks...
but lets settle this with some youtube :lovegunporn:


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby WRW » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 14:32:24

Infidelusmc wrote:I'm not mad. I just don't understand how you wouldn't do it as an extra look into the buyer...15-30 bucks...
but lets settle this with some youtube :lovegunporn:


You talk to and about people you've never met in that manner when you are not angry? Hmmm.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby joeshmo » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 14:39:56

Before you go spewing BS fact on the internet do your homework first. Unfortunatly there is not data past 2003 but it appears your figures are incorect my friend. Go to page 2 and read. Apears knives, blunt objects and other ( ie fist) beat firearms by almost double in violent crimes

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf

Proven fact- violent crime has hit a all time low

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/ma ... ime_052311 And gun ownership is at a all time high.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Remington » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:28:48

That's good research Joe.

I don't have the statistics to support me but I'm willing to proffer a theory or opinion that the overwhelming majority of guns that are sold to ineligible people are sold by criminals or people that also obtained them illegally or were unauthorized to have them in the first place.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Remington » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:43:42

I know I'm venturing out onto really thin ice now... but... since many Virginia district courts already offer online court records including closed and open dockets, it would help us somewhat to at least partially vet buyers ourselves by bringing all district courts online and consolidating databases so they can be searched from one place.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby joeshmo » Sat, 25 Feb 2012 21:50:59

Remington wrote:I know I'm venturing out onto really thin ice now... but... since many Virginia district courts already offer online court records including closed and open dockets, it would help us somewhat to at least partially vet buyers ourselves by bringing all district courts online and consolidating databases so they can be searched from one place.



They only go back 10 years and most cannot figure out the outcome of the case. If a charge is in general district and it goes to circut it is not accesable online. J&D is never open and will never be open online or at the court to view so any domestic disputes that would render you from owning you could never figure out. How would you know if someone was instatutionalized? Your not becuase it is sealed. BOS and a voters card is good enought, all else falls on the buyer if they choose to lie to you


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby VBshooter » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 10:35:13

SHMIV wrote;
I never said anything against the use of background checks. Use them, if you so desire


Exactly....If you so desire! Allowing the government or whatever entity to impose these checks on us is just more gun control;; It's personal property and a person has the right to dispose of it as they see fit,, If they decide not too ask questions ..Fine.. The antis in all their paranoid, over the top stupidity and cautiousness just love seeing debates like this to use in their propaganda to claim that "Even gun owners support more invasion into their private lives and business".. Court records?? WTF? ...\Hell Let"s just all just go down to the Cop Shop and do our selling there...After asking permission first of course..... Save all that nasty paperwork and checking ourselves and just let the Police do it.....Then they can lock any Bad Guys up right on the spot.
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby SHMIV » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:16:40

While I shall not claim to be an expert on criminal minds, I have spent a ridiculous amount of time around them. People who ought not have guns start getting a little sketchy when you start asking for ID's and signed bills of sale. They don't want their names attached to guns that they shouldn't have. Criminals, as a rule, like to be anonymous.

As I've mentioned before, perhaps a felon ought to have a red "F" on his ID card... that could eliminate much, right there.
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby gunderwood » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:51:36

SHMIV wrote:While I shall not claim to be an expert on criminal minds, I have spent a ridiculous amount of time around them. People who ought not have guns start getting a little sketchy when you start asking for ID's and signed bills of sale. They don't want their names attached to guns that they shouldn't have. Criminals, as a rule, like to be anonymous.

As I've mentioned before, perhaps a felon ought to have a red "F" on his ID card... that could eliminate much, right there.

I like to be anonymous because I value my privacy. Besides ID theft is all to rampant. Just because someone still believes in private property doesn't make them a felon. Strike up a conversation and you can usually tell very quickly who actually knows about firearms as a hobby and those who only saw it on CoD 17.
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby SHMIV » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 19:23:09

gunderwood wrote:
I like to be anonymous because I value my privacy. Besides ID theft is all to rampant. Just because someone still believes in private property doesn't make them a felon. Strike up a conversation and you can usually tell very quickly who actually knows about firearms as a hobby and those who only saw it on CoD 17.



I, too, like anonymity. I most certainly was not suggesting that only felons like privacy. But, if I'm fixxin to buy a gun from someone that I've only known for 5 minutes, I'm not opposed to letting him look at my drivers license. (Though, a photocopy would be out of the question.) I'm also not opposed to signing a bill of sale.

And, yes, if I were to sell a gun, I would definitely strike up a conversation. I would also pay attention to tattoo's, what the person is wearing, their vernacular, haircut (or lack thereof), mannerisms, and anything else that may be a red flag.

One other thing that would cause me to terminate the sale... If, while inspecting the gun, the individual demonstrates a lack of safety protocol, I don't care if he's a model citizen, pillar of the community, or whatever; I'm not selling to him.
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby VBshooter » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 21:56:49

It might also help if the powers that be didn't lump all felonies in that "Taking Of Constitutional Rights thing" Many felony convictions have absolutely no bearing on wether someone would have poor gun behavior..... Hell they let a conviceted DUI driver back behind the wheel. Guns IMHO should be the same depending on just what the conviction was... But as stated Private Sales are Private Sales and they work just fine ...
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby sigster » Mon, 27 Feb 2012 00:12:32

I never sell any weapons so that's my solution. I know a guy that still has one more year to pull behind bars for selling guns to a convicted felon. The guy even told him he had a record and he sold to him anyway. The buyer was BATF.

Little different scenario though, he was selling quite a few weapons at flea markets and popped up on BATF radar so they shot him down.

He got what he deserved.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby BW1911 » Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:19:57

sigster wrote:I never sell any weapons so that's my solution


+1.. That's my favorite solution, too!


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby dorminWS » Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:28:00

BW1911 wrote:
sigster wrote:I never sell any weapons so that's my solution


+1.. That's my favorite solution, too!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby CCFan » Mon, 27 Feb 2012 12:44:29

Haven't sold one yet... :-)

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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby VBshooter » Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:10:19

I never sell em either,,,get too attached to them and value them beyond any resale ,,, Still do love to buy and build em htough
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