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Common Sense and Due Caution

General discussion - Feel free to discuss anything you want here. Firearm related is preferred, but not required

Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby allingeneral » Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:20:42

As long as you PCS orders to a unit in Virginia, you will be able to purchase a firearm here. You will need to have your military ID and a copy of your orders to prove residency,
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby formula73 » Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:26:15

Right on, man. I figured VA was pretty reasonable. I mean, they honor my WA ccp over here... :friends:


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby jdonovan » Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:41:26

If you are ACTIVE duty military, and you hold orders that indicate your permanent duty station is in Virginia. Then that qualifies you as a Virginia resident.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby formula73 » Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:50:16

Thanks guys. I am. I'm on the way over that way late spring/early summer with my ship and should probably be there for a few years, at least...then shore duty...then sweet, sweet retirement.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:59:56

allingeneral wrote:I ask to see a driver's license to verify residency (you can't sell a handgun to someone from out of state) and I ask the straightforward question "Are you legally allowed to own a firearm". If they lie to me and buy a gun knowing that they're not legally allowed to, then that's on them.

I also take the person's character into account. I won't sell a gun to someone who looks like a crack-head.

+1

I hate paying unnecessary fees, so I'd not be willing to waste money on a background/FFL transfer.
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 13 Jan 2012 21:02:03

derek141 wrote:+1. I copy the DL and make clear that it goes in my safe never to see the light of day, unless the transaction comes back on me.

Sorry, but I'm not giving some random dude a copy of my government issued ID card. Would you like my SSN while we're at at?
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby AlanM » Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:39:51

formula73 wrote:Can I buy a gun in VA, for instance, once I get back from my deployment, as a WA resident with my change of homeport papers for my ship? Man, this stuff gets confusing, sometimes. I'd like to stay a WA resident because, well, there's no state income tax. :hysterical:


That's EXACTLY why I kept WA as my home of record for almost all of my time in the Navy. (I also carried the same driver's license for over a decade.)
It's nice as long as you don't live there and have to pay the sales taxes they have there.
One other nice thing about WA, sort of. When my father passed away in Spokane, I and my siblings found out that WA has no probate laws and no inheritance taxes. The five of us sat down with Dad's attorney, she read his will, asked, "Does anybody have any problems with the will?, No?, Sign this and go split up the furniture."
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby cyras21 » Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:53:44

allingeneral wrote:I ask to see a driver's license to verify residency (you can't sell a handgun to someone from out of state) and I ask the straightforward question "Are you legally allowed to own a firearm". If they lie to me and buy a gun knowing that they're not legally allowed to, then that's on them.

I also take the person's character into account. I won't sell a gun to someone who looks like a crack-head.

I do like some of the ideas posed in this thread, though. It's all about what makes you comfortable with the legality of the sale.



I searched through the code of VA and could not find reference to the alluded fact that a VA resident was prohibited from selling a firearm to a resident of another state on VA soil. Only reference to citizenship was a US citizen. Can you provided a citation for this?


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby AlanM » Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:51:16

cyras21 wrote:
allingeneral wrote:I ask to see a driver's license to verify residency (you can't sell a handgun to someone from out of state) and I ask the straightforward question "Are you legally allowed to own a firearm". If they lie to me and buy a gun knowing that they're not legally allowed to, then that's on them.

I also take the person's character into account. I won't sell a gun to someone who looks like a crack-head.

I do like some of the ideas posed in this thread, though. It's all about what makes you comfortable with the legality of the sale.



I searched through the code of VA and could not find reference to the alluded fact that a VA resident was prohibited from selling a firearm to a resident of another state on VA soil. Only reference to citizenship was a US citizen. Can you provided a citation for this?


You couldn't find it in the VA code because it's a FEDERAL law.
Here's the NRA quick reference.
Sales Between Individuals

An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence.
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There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
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If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby merlynda » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:20:58

From the ATF website:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicen ... te-firearm

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

Does anybody know if Virginia Law recognizes the part that says:

"If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained"

This is an important disctinction as many military live in Virginia but work in DC or Maryland or vice-versa. (i.e. orders to DC but live in VA)


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:30:28

allingeneral wrote:I ask to see a driver's license to verify residency (you can't sell a handgun to someone from out of state) and I ask the straightforward question "Are you legally allowed to own a firearm". If they lie to me and buy a gun knowing that they're not legally allowed to, then that's on them.

I also take the person's character into account. I won't sell a gun to someone who looks like a crack-head.

I do like some of the ideas posed in this thread, though. It's all about what makes you comfortable with the legality of the sale.



Idiotic...."then thats on them" is how poop like Virginia Tech happens. What a dumbass statement...Sell your guns the right way....Otherwise you are just giving the "gun takers" more ammo.
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby CCFan » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:40:40

Infidelusmc wrote:
allingeneral wrote:I ask to see a driver's license to verify residency (you can't sell a handgun to someone from out of state) and I ask the straightforward question "Are you legally allowed to own a firearm". If they lie to me and buy a gun knowing that they're not legally allowed to, then that's on them.

I also take the person's character into account. I won't sell a gun to someone who looks like a crack-head.

I do like some of the ideas posed in this thread, though. It's all about what makes you comfortable with the legality of the sale.



Idiotic...."then thats on them" is how poop like Virginia Tech happens. What a dumbass statement...Sell your guns the right way....Otherwise you are just giving the "gun takers" more ammo.
Semper f*** Fi


Um you might want to do a little research before you spout off. The incident with Cho at Virginia Tech happened because NCIS check at the time didn't flag any mental health issues, and Cho purchased his firearms legally.
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:46:59

CCFan wrote:Um you might want to do a little research before you spout off. The incident with Cho at Virginia Tech happened because NCIS check at the time didn't flag any mental health issues, and Cho purchased his firearms legally.



I know this. It doesnt mean another one can't happen cause someone is too lazy or too cheap to take the time and sell the way they should...It might be legal, but its definitely not ethical to just say "thats on them" or "i asked and he said he was good".


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby WRW » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:50:14

Infidelusmc wrote:
CCFan wrote:Um you might want to do a little research before you spout off. The incident with Cho at Virginia Tech happened because NCIS check at the time didn't flag any mental health issues, and Cho purchased his firearms legally.



I know this. It doesnt mean another one can't happen cause someone is too lazy or too cheap to take the time and sell the way they should...It might be legal, but its definitely not ethical to just say "thats on them" or "i asked and he said he was good".



I'm not following the logic here. Are you saying that all sales should go through a FFL because two FFL sales in the past failed to stop Cho?


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:26:59

WRW wrote:
Infidelusmc wrote:
CCFan wrote:Um you might want to do a little research before you spout off. The incident with Cho at Virginia Tech happened because NCIS check at the time didn't flag any mental health issues, and Cho purchased his firearms legally.



I know this. It doesnt mean another one can't happen cause someone is too lazy or too cheap to take the time and sell the way they should...It might be legal, but its definitely not ethical to just say "thats on them" or "i asked and he said he was good".



I'm not following the logic here. Are you saying that all sales should go through a FFL because two FFL sales in the past failed to stop Cho?


No! But, why give someone that shouldn't own a gun a chance to commit crime with yours because of a "ignorance is bliss mentality". I understand sometimes people slip through the cracks at gun dealers, but its strait-up unethical to just hope someone doesn't have a record to make a quick buck...


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Infidelusmc » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:29:58

BTW...i wasnt using cho as an example of someone slipping threw the cracks...i was using his an an example of a retard with a gun....and my overall point is why take the chance of selling a gun to a retard...


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby CCFan » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:54:55

Infidelusmc wrote:No! But, why give someone that shouldn't own a gun a chance to commit crime with yours because of a "ignorance is bliss mentality". I understand sometimes people slip through the cracks at gun dealers, but its strait-up unethical to just hope someone doesn't have a record to make a quick buck...


I don't recall anyone here saying they were planning on being unethical and trying to make a quick buck.... :confused:

In fact, most of the folks here would (and have) walked away from a deal where something seems hinky. So, since you're on a roll, if the guy seems legit, at what length do you go to make sure they're not a felon?
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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby SHMIV » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:28:32

Infidel...

If I sell a man my car, and he uses it to run people over, I bear no responsibility in that.

If I sell a man my hammer, and he uses it to bash his wife's skull in, I bear no responsibility in that.

If I sell a man my Zippo Lighter, and he uses it to burn down a school full of kids, again, I bear no responsibility in that.

I possess a great number of wonderful and useful items that could be used to kill people, and should I sell one of those things to someone who chooses to misuse it in such a matter, that was his choice.

Guns are no different.
"God Almighty created simplicity. Complexity, inspired by the Great Deceiver, tends to be the province of men. " S. H. M., IV

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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby Remington » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:55:07

I started this topic in the marketplace forum when I was helping my wife sell some estate items she had been asked to sell. The experience that prompted me to say something was that someone started an e-mail exchange with me based on my for-sale post on the VGOF site. The person contacting me sent about three messages inquiring about certain guns and then indicated that he was interested in a pistol but wasn't certain that he was qualified to buy it. I had already obtained his name and did an online public court records check and realized the he had been convicted of assault with a weapon and had an open court docket for possession of a firearm by a person unauthorized to own a firearm. I was somewhat stunned by the experience and decided to talk about it here. Other members quickly pointed out that certain organizations and political activists were targeting online gun forum users in attempts to see who was willing to sell firearms to persons that say they are not qualified to possess or own guns. I think that is what I experienced. Thankfully I had obtained enough information from other postings and resources available to us VGOF members and was able to find my way through responsible sales to qualified buyers. The laws aren't perfect and there always seems that someone is going to test you to see what you are willing to do. I believe we have the right and responsibility to conduct ourselves and our transactions within the letter and spirit of applicable laws. I've never gotten the impression or message from anywhere within the forum that we can turn a blind eye or avoid responsibility for our actions by transferring it or blaming it on others. In my original post on this topic I said that if you were uncertain or uncomfortable with selling firearms yourself, seek help from someone with an FFL. But based on all my positive experiences and from what I learned with the help of other forum experiences, you can learn and figure out how to make responsible sales or transfers to qualified people. It just takes time and effort.


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Re: Common Sense and Due Caution

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:00:45

Infidelusmc wrote:
allingeneral wrote:I ask to see a driver's license to verify residency (you can't sell a handgun to someone from out of state) and I ask the straightforward question "Are you legally allowed to own a firearm". If they lie to me and buy a gun knowing that they're not legally allowed to, then that's on them.

I also take the person's character into account. I won't sell a gun to someone who looks like a crack-head.

I do like some of the ideas posed in this thread, though. It's all about what makes you comfortable with the legality of the sale.



Idiotic...."then thats on them" is how poop like Virginia Tech happens. What a dumbass statement...Sell your guns the right way....Otherwise you are just giving the "gun takers" more ammo.
Semper f*** Fi

Please sell all your automobiles, knives, baseball bats, rope, heavy books, and farts immediately! You've apparently bought into the fallacy that inanimate objects kill people and thus should avoid owning anything that could potentially ever harm anyone. Incidentally, that form you fill out at the FFL is exactly the same thing...if the buyer lies it's on them and the "background" check is laughably inaccurate too.
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.


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