School grounds

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School grounds

Postby 4xwcc24 » Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:43:56

All, Understand CC on school property, however, the way I'm reading it is, if school is not in session then I can cc on the property? For instance, if there is a car show, flea market etc.. can I cc on the school property? Any advice would be appreciated..

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.


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Re: School grounds

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:58:17

It would depend if the car show, flea market, etc. were "school sponsored" or not and where specifically you are.

Don't forget, while school is in session, it is still completely legal to CC in the school parking and drop-off areas, where most car shows and flea markets are.

Another awesome exemption... I can carry a weapon in any school in VA, in the middle of the day, while the school is in full operation and kids everywhere, as long as the gun is unloaded and cased. With a semi-auto with a detachable mag, you can put ammo in the mag all day long, the gun isn't considered loaded until the mag is inserted in the weapon.

If you are visiting a school for an extended period of time and want to have your defense weapon, toss a couple full mags and the pistol in its case and toss the case in you backpack or laptop bag and you are completely legal. Not as great as CHP... but beats the hell out of the gun being in the truck while you're getting shot at by a loon inside the school.


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Re: School grounds

Postby SHMIV » Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:04:46

Where is that exception, Marc? I don't see that listed in the code quoted above. Is that a recent thing?

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Re: School grounds

Postby 4xwcc24 » Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:30:05

MarcSpaz wrote:It would depend if the car show, flea market, etc. were "school sponsored" or not and where specifically you are.

Don't forget, while school is in session, it is still completely legal to CC in the school parking and drop-off areas, where most car shows and flea markets are.

Another awesome exemption... I can carry a weapon in any school in VA, in the middle of the day, while the school is in full operation and kids everywhere, as long as the gun is unloaded and cased. With a semi-auto with a detachable mag, you can put ammo in the mag all day long, the gun isn't considered loaded until the mag is inserted in the weapon.

If you are visiting a school for an extended period of time and want to have your defense weapon, toss a couple full mags and the pistol in its case and toss the case in you backpack or laptop bag and you are completely legal. Not as great as CHP... but beats the hell out of the gun being in the truck while you're getting shot at by a loon inside the school.


Got it about parking and drop-off areas while school is in session, this is a non-sponsored school event that is taking place inside a school (guess they rented it out) on a weekend...


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Re: School grounds

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:30:24

Stew, you should be good to go.

H, just got home, let me hop on the PC and I'll grab the exact section.

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Last edited by MarcSpaz on Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:44:15, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: School grounds

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:43:55

Here you go...

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

18.2-308.1 - Sub-section C, Part VI.

C. ...The provisions of this section shall not apply to... (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container,...


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Re: School grounds

Postby SHMIV » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 00:24:41

Cool. Thanks. I wasn't aware of that provision.

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Re: School grounds

Postby jdonovan » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:37:45

and because it hasn't had enough tests...

"unloaded firearm that is in a closed container"

There is much debate, if a holster with retention/lock feature counts as a container.


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Re: School grounds

Postby 4xwcc24 » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 08:02:10

So, with all this being said, what's the opinion of cc in a school auditorium/cafeteria during a weekend to attend a non-school event?


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Re: School grounds

Postby 2k05gt » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:38:08

Remember that you can't Carry in a house of worship, so does a school that rents the auditorium for a church services on Sunday count?
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Re: School grounds

Postby jdonovan » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:48:21

2k05gt wrote:Remember that you can't Carry in a house of worship,

without a good and sufficient reason.

Code: Select all
§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.


selfdefense _IS_ a good and sufficient reason according to a past VA AG.


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Re: School grounds

Postby dorminWS » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 11:18:45

jdonovan wrote:
2k05gt wrote:Remember that you can't Carry in a house of worship,

without a good and sufficient reason.

Code: Select all
§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.


selfdefense _IS_ a good and sufficient reason according to a past VA AG.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't know that I'd count on the present uber-liberal AG to feel bound by that opinion; and therefore any anti-gun court might just decide to nail you to the wall given an opportunity.
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Re: School grounds

Postby MarcSpaz » Tue, 17 Mar 2015 14:26:27

4xwcc24 wrote:So, with all this being said, what's the opinion of cc in a school auditorium/cafeteria during a weekend to attend a non-school event?


I'm no lawyer, but the code seems very specific.

... property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place...


If there is space that is used exclusively for classes and a class is taking place... then its a no go, but after class when the building is not being used for instruction, you are fine.

In an instance where the county, city or private school (aka business/company) has space used by students and is "rented or loaned" space on school grounds, then that space is not exclusive to school activity or sponsored by the school, therefore the area is not off limits, students present or not.

I personally would tread very, very lightly "inside" a school building, regardless. Outside in the parking lot is a no brainer. Inside the building, you have a very hard time realizing what is "school sponsored" or not. Also, I could see the current States attorney saying something like "I don't care what the law actually says, you are being charged for violating the 'Spirit' of the law, which is to keep schools a mass-killer friendly zone."

2k05gt wrote:Remember that you can't Carry in a house of worship, so does a school that rents the auditorium for a church services on Sunday count?


I'm with JD on this one. Especially since ISIL/ISIS has a bounty on our heads.


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Re: School grounds

Postby 4xwcc24 » Wed, 18 Mar 2015 18:18:56

Thanks guys, definitely not a school sponsored event. Taking my better half to a cake show (being dragged), and do not want to leave the tool behind...


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Re: School grounds

Postby GregVa » Thu, 19 Mar 2015 21:40:22

So who has the link to the part about concealed carry being exempt from the 1000 yard rule? If you are walking by a school on a side street that might be with in the 1000 yard range, you are ok to cc, right? I remember someone posting up a link to that, but I cant find it. If you have it can you post it?

Thanks


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Re: School grounds

Postby MarcSpaz » Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:58:02

I must be stupid. I didn't know there was a 1,000 foot rule. How did I miss that. And I guess I break that law daily since I live within 1,000 feet of 2 schools.

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Re: School grounds

Postby GregVa » Thu, 19 Mar 2015 23:39:28

Marc,

I believe private residences withing the area are exempt.

I did find this:

"The "gun free zones" law exempts CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) holders who live in a state that requires a background check before the issuing of a permit. "
here: https://gunowners.org/fs9611.htm

And this:

The Federal Gun Free School Zones Act limits where an unlicensed person may carry; carry of a weapon, openly or concealed, within 1000 feet of a school zone is prohibited, with exceptions granted in the Federal law to holders of valid State-issued weapons permits (State laws may reassert the illegality of school zone carry by license holders), and under LEOSA to current and honorably retired law enforcement officers (regardless of permit, usually trumping State law).
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_ ... ted_States

so its ok.


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Re: School grounds

Postby ProShooter » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:48:21

I think you guys are misreading some statutes.
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Re: School grounds

Postby MarcSpaz » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:08:41

GregVa wrote:Marc,

I believe private residences withing the area are exempt.

I did find this:...


Thanks for the links. Gonna read about this a bit.


ProShooter wrote:I think you guys are misreading some statutes.


I have had a few people say this too me before. That is why I always say "INAL". I don't do well with ambiguity and misleading text. I read it and take it as face value based on common definitions...

That said... what particularly stands out? I don't want to give out bad advice if I am misreading/misinterpreting something.


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Re: School grounds

Postby ShotgunBlast » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:43:16

This is exactly why I support basic, limited laws. The complex bureaucracy we have now creates an unknown number of instances and cases where it's not obvious to absolutely everyone whether what you're doing is legal or not. It's worse than untangling balled up Christmas lights.


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