Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:40:57

Seems like the law is vague and if you even got anywhere close to being charged with
this crime because a sign was posted, you never noticed it, just happen to be arrested
without anybody verbally telling you to leave, I'd have to believe that you could get your
attorney to strike a plea bargain for a Class 3 or 4 misdemeanor which is just a fine and
no jail time.

I suppose there is always the Prosecutor, Judge, and Jury from hell that might come together
in a perfect storm scenario.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:45:23

Sounds to me like wishful thinking is occuring here and it may end up getting people in trouble. Try reading 18.2-308 O

"The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property."

That means if it is posted with a sign indicating firearms are not permitted, you can't have it there. It also means if you are told by an employee (whether a sign is posted or not) that firearms are not permitted, you can't have it there. Now, will the police arrest you for trespassing? I don't know but I think it would be prudent not to tempt them either.

We get pissed off when anti-gunners try to force their beliefs on us but some of us feel we should be able to force our beliefs on everyone else. We look like a bunch of jerks when those among us that feel that because the 2A exists and we have a CC permit that we can carry anywhere we want to, damn private property rights and what the property owners want, I'll carry where I want to.

This way of thinking does nothing for our cause except possibly alienate potential allies. We are better off to observe the wishes of the property owner while pointing out to them that we do spend money in their business and that if they do not desire for us to carry our firearms in the business then we'll take our business elsewhere.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:52:59

Moccasin wrote:Sounds to me like wishful thinking is occuring here and it may end up getting people in trouble. Try reading 18.2-308 O

"The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property."

That means if it is posted with a sign indicating firearms are not permitted, you can't have it there. It also means if you are told by an employee (whether a sign is posted or not) that firearms are not permitted, you can't have it there. Now, will the police arrest you for trespassing? I don't know but I think it would be prudent not to tempt them either.

We get pissed off when anti-gunners try to force their beliefs on us but some of us feel we should be able to force our beliefs on everyone else. We look like a bunch of jerks when those among us that feel that because the 2A exists and we have a CC permit that we can carry anywhere we want to, damn private property rights and what the property owners want, I'll carry where I want to.

This way of thinking does nothing for our cause except possibly alienate potential allies. We are better off to observe the wishes of the property owner while pointing out to them that we do spend money in their business and that if they do not desire for us to carry our firearms in the business then we'll take our business elsewhere.




Moccasin:


I agree with you 100%. A posted sign or verbal notification is completely understandable.
My point is, what happens if you never notice the sign(s) or get verbally notified? Are you
still liable to be charged with a crime if you never knew that John Doe's Hardware Store
had a sign posted that wasn't "reasonably" visible?

Yes, if somebody notices you carrying and they tell you to leave, you leave. Otherwise, off to
jail. I'm not saying that people should just ignore the law. I'm talking about situations where you
have no idea a private business/property is prohibiting guns.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:18:41

Chances are you will be asked to leave by the police before they arrest you, if you cause a problem you will most likely be cited/arrested at immediately. I don't believe the officer can just arrest you because he believes you are trespassing. By that I mean that someone (store manager) would have to file a complaint. In the process the LEO will most likely figure out that you weren't properly informed or that the door you entered wasn't posted and convince the person making the complaint not to look like a fool.

We have a duty to look at the doors we enter before entering. That doesn't mean at a mall (or anywhere else with multiple entrances) we have to go to every door, if we happen to enter a door which is unmarked we can't be held responsible.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby VBshooter » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:44:43

Moccasin wrote:
We have a duty to look at the doors we enter before entering. That doesn't mean at a mall (or anywhere else with multiple entrances) we have to go to every door, if we happen to enter a door which is unmarked we can't be held responsible.


Agreed I look for signs everywhere now,,, There does not seem to be a lot of them or I just haven't been to the places with them... But yes, as a gun owner that carries YOU are responsible for your conduct at all times. In incidents with law enforcment I feel it;s better to deal with them as an adult and keep your anger in check, Now if there is a clear cut violation ,then I would get all the info I could, do whatever you have to do to avoid an arrest and then seek legal advice if you intend to push it.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:42:04

Thanks Moccasin and VBshooter. So far, to date, the only business I've seen with such
a restriction is on the door into the Movie Theaters in Brambleton (Ashburn), VA
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:13:46

xjohnx wrote:Is that your feeling? or is that the law? I've heard two versions:

1) If you're caught carrying in a business that has posted a no firearms sign, you are immediately charged with criminal trespassing.

2) You have to be asked to leave and refuse in order to be charged.

Anyone know which of these is correct?


The law clearly states you cannot carry where:

ยง18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.

Not sure what the penalty is.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:55:02

alby wrote:the only business I've seen with such a restriction is on the door into the Movie Theaters in Brambleton (Ashburn), VA


You've seen one more than I have. I know of some businesses that have those signs and intentionally avoid going in them though. VCDL has a list of places known to want to be a victim zone, whether by advertising with a sign or by telling people that OC to leave. Seems like many theatres want to be victim zones too.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:28:14

The only place I've ever seen a sign is at Gilberts and I kindly comply. Only a real moron retard would try something dumb there. Having said that there are certainly plenty around.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby jadedone4 » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:02:32

.. probably a little late on the punch, but add "Centerville Multiplex Cinemas" to the list (vaguely remember reading here that "National Amusements" was not gun-friendly.

Stopped by Centerville Multiplex to catch a movie; OC'g the SIG, young lady at counter, along with two guys in ties, ready to take cash from me and exchange for movie ticket. Security guy walks up and states, "Sir you can't have a gun here...!" All stop by the ticket lady, the two tie guys back away (silently, more on that to come). I asked the Security guy what is the official policy of the theater - he mumbles something; I then ask if they have posted signage in the building at entrances; again more "rocks in mouth" speech. Then Security guy asks if I am LEO, state no; then I aske for a manager - guess who security guy points to..? You got it, the two tie-wearers that backed off earlier. Asked the "manager" (quotations are appropriate at this time) what the official policy is - he asks me for a "permit to carry that thing.." because he has never seen anyone carrying a gun in the theater before. Not being a smart azz, but I kindly pointed to the security guy's revolver; and rather emphatically stated that security guy is well aware of the law of VA on OC'g (he stated that I could not OC earlier). Decided to ask for a business card to follow-up with someone who knew (as the tie-wearer simply stated that "he would take direction from the security-guy - whom I pointed out to the "manager" was a third-party vendor/contractor, while he was a "manager" of the facility). Got a phone-number and some names; will draft a letter to them next week.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:35:18

Just sent them an email asking for clarificaton regarding their firearms policy. Expect the same reply I got from the tank museum,,,nothing.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:32:51

I went to BOA in Springfield yesterday with a large cash deposit. There were about 25 people ahead of me and one of the bank officers was asking people if they just had cash deposits. I told the guy yes and he said ok we can do that at the ATM. He led me outside to the ATM and showed me how to do it. I knew you could deposit cash but I had a pretty big stack. The ATM counts the money BTW, all you have to do is load it in the hopper. I didnt know that. While we were standing there I told him I was glad I had my pistol with me since we were at the ATM. The Spingfield BOA is not in a good neighborhood. He didnt miss a beat. Just looked at me and smiled knowingly and continued to chat. I didnt press the issue by asking it they allowed it inside or not. Good experience and I learned a couple of new things.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby jadedone4 » Sun, 09 Aug 2009 10:10:29

Moccasin wrote:Just sent them an email asking for clarificaton regarding their firearms policy. Expect the same reply I got from the tank museum,,,nothing.


Interesting thing is that another poster (OC.org) stated they have OC'd at same theater (the same night) and then previously - with no issues. When I have a free cycle during the day, I'll stop by the theater and ask for the General Manager - to find out what the official policy.

Thing that "bugs" me is that they kept asking for a "permit" even after explaining that no "permit" is necessary in VA. I thought to ask if I CC'd would that make them feel better; but since they did not know the law and were obviously in "Al Haig" mode ("I'm in Charge..."); I let it drop, asked for POC information to engage management later.

Devil's Advocate... wondering if I CC in there the next time and recognized - would they they want to violate the "buffet" of my rights... let's ignore the 2nd AND the 4th and ask this guy what's under his shirt... without the off-chance of sounding "fruity"... a good response would be "nothing comes between me and my SIG" (I know, showing age here - from the Brooke Shields Calvin Klein commercials... early 80
s).

Additional information.. and not a "dig" but the names I got last night for "management" had all the "other" letters of the alphabet that are not typically used in the USA....


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby 0007dad » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:21:57

For what it's worth...reviews

http://www.yelp.com/biz/kabuki-japanese ... stiansburg

Not sure but this might be the same place that set a customer on fire. Wouldn't want any dangerous guns around.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:38:18

Email address is comments@massakisteakhouse.com. I will be emailing them about an open carry lunch to occur later this week. I intend to attempt to take 5 others there for lunch, all 6 of us will OC.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby allingeneral » Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:19:24

ah, man...that's out there past Charlottesville. If it were a little closer, I would be very happy to attend an OC dinner there. In any case, let us know the result and if there will actually be an OC dinner.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:38:48

And that is the whole point in me taking 5 others who will be OC'ing there. Based on your report they would have turned away 1 or 2 customers, I'm going to present 6 or more customers and ALL will be armed. You need to make a report at friendorfoe.us


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby KennyS » Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:07

I may have just missed it, but could you supply a email for them so I could as well give them my two cents worth.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Grapeshot » Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:37:36

Never, never suggest that an establishment post "NO Guns" sign, even in jest. Oh, and add a good digital recorder to your carry equipment - would have been of great value here.

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:51:26

[quote="Moccasin

And that is the whole point in me taking 5 others who will be OC'ing there. Based on your report they would have turned away 1 or 2 customers, I'm going to present 6 or more customers and ALL will be armed. You need to make a report at friendorfoe.us[/quote]
They replied that they would be happy to host a lunch party but that they do not allow firearms. My reply to them was that I would not support a business that did not support ALL of my rights and that I would make sure they had been listed at http://friendorfoe.us/ as an establishment that does not want the business of gun owners.


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