Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:36:03

NewColonial wrote:
zephyp wrote:I frequent Gilbert's and would prefer to carry but in their defense they aren't situated in the best of locations. Most of the folks I see while I'm there appear to be respectable but I've also seen quite a few thugs as well.


Seems to me their signs only serve to disarm the honest folks. I doubt thugs with bad intents are going to say "Aw shucks, we can go there." There's a pretty nice gun store right down the road from my office and I rarely stop in just due to the hassle of unloading and then loading again. It's not located in the best of neighborhoods.


I agree, but I think the way they see it is it only takes one bad apple to ruin it for everybody. And no, I don't think they are trying to disarm honest folk. I, and the other patrons, can always take our business elsewhere where they do allow carry on the premises. As a matter of fact, by selling guns they are indeed attempting to arm honest folk.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby herseyc » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:34:10

I am pretty new to carrying a weapon. For the last 8 or 9 months I have been either OCing or CCing most places. Not really worrying about where it was allowed or not allowed. I do have a CWP and have not run into any problems.

I am sure this has been brought up before, and this is my first post here and I figured it one hell of a way to get started.

How can anywhere that is privately owned but open to the public be allowed by law to deny me a constitutionally guaranteed right.

You are required to make sure your publicly accessible private business can be accessed by those with disabilities, you cannot refuse service to someone because of race, people that do not smoke have the right to clean air even in a private business (ok not yet, but in a couple of months), but this all changes when you start talking about the 2nd amendment. A private property owner can have someone arrested for trespassing that is legally exercising their 2nd amendment right.

I don't understand how some rights can be guaranteed while others are subject to the property owners will.

At election time you hear about it being your duty to exercise your right to vote. If you do not vote you are not a good American. If you use that argument are you also not a good American if you do not exercise your 2nd amendment right and at least own a fire arm.

Since I have been carrying open and concealed I have been asked by several people why, or if I am expecting trouble. My reason for carrying is pretty simple - I can and I believe I should.

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby BluemontGlock » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:28:06

Yea...loudoun guns seems to enjoy the OC on their customers...
and when i had a grip issues with one of my carry pieces, we whipped it right out on the counter, unloaded it, cleared the chamber, and started to pull it apart right there...

Ammo is expensive everywhere, but these guys live the life...feel very at home in Loudoun Guns, great selection...

Side note: there is one younger fella who works there who concelled carries a full size desert eagle...he has just enough 'tude to pull it off...and it looks like he has a relator sign tucked up under his shirt. the kids gets huge props from me :thumbsup:
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:13:44

herseyc wrote:How can anywhere that is privately owned but open to the public be allowed by law to deny me a constitutionally guaranteed right.


The same "preemption" is often found with the 1st Amendment. For instance, Rick as the owner or this site, can dictate what is acceptable and what is not. Visit any of the sites that allow comments and you will find an acceptable use policy or something similar.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby herseyc » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:42:57

For instance, Rick as the owner or this site, can dictate what is acceptable and what is not. Visit any of the sites that allow comments and you will find an acceptable use policy or something similar.


Except that posting to this site is not open to the public. Registration is, but not posting. The site owner can at anytime limit registration to whom every he wishes.

Most acceptable use policies do not prevent you from posting. You can still post whatever you want, but it may or may not be displayed. Freedom of speech - I can say pretty much anything I want, does not guarantee that anyone will actually hear it :)

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:01:17

You are indeed correct. However, in a private setting (and this is considered private property) you face the consequences for violating acceptable use and the owner/administrator can delete/edit/give you the boot.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby allingeneral » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:21:24

zephyp wrote:You are indeed correct. However, in a private setting (and this is considered private property) you face the consequences for violating acceptable use and the owner/administrator can delete/edit/give you the boot.


Don't worry though - I not only allow, but I ENCOURAGE OC or CC at any time here :packin:
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:25:55

allingeneral wrote:Don't worry though - I not only allow, but I ENCOURAGE OC or CC at any time here :packin:


I hope so. I look like a mexican bandit here at home sometimes. Hey, that brings up something I've been wondering about. How many guns are we allowed to carry at the same time here in VA? 1, 2, 3, as many as we can strap on? Just curious. Anyone know?
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Moccasin » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:01:00

No limit that I am aware of other than with magazine size for rifles. I can't give the section of law but I did read somewhere that there was a 20 round per magazine limit if carrying a rifle. There may be a limit on shotgun magazines also.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby CCFan » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:42:15

Moccasin wrote:No limit that I am aware of other than with magazine size for rifles. I can't give the section of law but I did read somewhere that there was a 20 round per magazine limit if carrying a rifle. There may be a limit on shotgun magazines also.


State Police Summary of Virginia Firearms Laws (2005):
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/downloads/2005%20Summary%20of%20Virginia%20Firearms%20Laws.pdf

Carrying a loaded semi-automatic center fire rifle or pistol with a 20 plus round magazine or a shotgun which will hold more than 7 rounds on any public place
(§ 18.2-287.4). (certain counties and cities only)

Guess I'll have to swap out the 30 round magazines for the 20 round on the AR when walking through those counties/cities. In all seriousness though, it's too bad they don't list those counties/cities...
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby zephyp » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:05:47

Moccasin wrote:No limit that I am aware of other than with magazine size for rifles. I can't give the section of law but I did read somewhere that there was a 20 round per magazine limit if carrying a rifle. There may be a limit on shotgun magazines also.


Thanks, thats nice to know. As for 30 round AR mags, if we are compelled to carry several on the street then IMO the laws will be a distant memory...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby VBshooter » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:21:53

that 30 round mag thing may be for hunters , seeing that no loacality can pre empt state laws except for hunting, especially ,If not then there is a problem the way I see it,
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby CCFan » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:47:19

Found it - the law does list the localities, and note that valid CHP holders are exempt...

§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.


Source: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby Vahunter » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:19:24

VBshooter wrote:that 30 round mag thing may be for hunters , seeing that no loacality can pre empt state laws except for hunting, especially ,If not then there is a problem the way I see it,


No limit on rifle capacity while hunting but there is a three shot limit for shotguns while hunting migratory birds.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby rangerray » Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:15:43

Waffle House has it posted on the door.


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:28:13

rangerray wrote:Waffle House has it posted on the door.




This brings up a good point that might have been discussed earlier.
Even if a business posts a sign on the door saying (NO FIREARMS) or some such,
and you walk in carrying your weapon concealed or open, its still up to an employee
of the business to verbally inform you of the policy and to ask you to leave.

My reasoning is that, how can anybody claim you read or even noticed the posted sign?
For instance, when I went to Regal Movie Theater, they had this notice posted on
a single door, down in the bottom corner. If I went through another door or didn't
look down, how would I know that Regal bans weapons???? I wouldn't. Which means that
the burden of notification falls on the business imposing the ban and not on the
individual with the weapon. And if Regal or any other business is too cheap to employ
people to check and notify patrons of their rules, too bad.



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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby xjohnx » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:32:29

Is that your feeling? or is that the law? I've heard two versions:

1) If you're caught carrying in a business that has posted a no firearms sign, you are immediately charged with criminal trespassing.

2) You have to be asked to leave and refuse in order to be charged.

Anyone know which of these is correct?


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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:02:23

xjohnx wrote:Is that your feeling? or is that the law? I've heard two versions:

1) If you're caught carrying in a business that has posted a no firearms sign, you are immediately charged with criminal trespassing.

2) You have to be asked to leave and refuse in order to be charged.

Anyone know which of these is correct?
]



Well, that is my opinion. Charging somebody with criminal trespassing based on a posted
sign that may or may not be visible would be evil.. Think I'm gonna go do a law search right now
and see if I can get a more concrete answer.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:06:07

Virginia Code § 18.2-119 defines the crime of trespassing as follows:

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.
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Re: Firearm Unfriendly Businesses in Virginia

Postby alby » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:06:41

Looks like the key is "reasonably seen" posted signs.
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