Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I had someone ask me this question and I had no idea what the answer was. Here was the question:

"Can I carry a loaded handgun in (my car door map pocket) without my CC permit?"

My answer to the person was "I don't know, let me see what I can dig up."

I've looked at the code of virgina linked at the top of the page and I couldn't seem to find anything, perhaps I just missed it. I tried looking up some old threads I thought talked about it and couldn't find anything. Now here's my thinking, I THOUGHT (and am looking for a citation of law) there was a bill signed into law that allows for the unlicensed carry of loaded handguns in cars that came about the same time CCing in restaurants bill became law. Is this the case? If not what does the law say on this issue?

Without a CHP - "Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel."

thanks proshooter, do you happen to have a link to the statute, or the number?

18.2-308(B)(10)

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

I don't think the pocket of the door qualifies as a "container or compartment". I believe a center console or glove compartment was the intent of the law.

thanks allin, i'll pass the info along.

The key word is "secured", meaning the container or compartment must be closeable with some type of device to keep the container closed. Nothing says it must be locked or lockable and nothing dictates location. I seriously doubt that you could get off with a map pocket in a door.

I wonder if something like the Desantis Kingston Car Seat Holster with Thumb Retention Strap would work:
http://www.desantisholster.com:80/store ... tm_index=0

Of course, the simplest answer is to get your CHP and then not worry about this.

Here's a twist. My understanding is you can carry concealed in a federal park if you have a chp. What about carrying in your car without a CHP. If I drive through a federal park, like skyline drive, am I still legal?

LFS wrote:I wonder if something like the Desantis Kingston Car Seat Holster with Thumb Retention Strap would work:
http://www.desantisholster.com:80/store ... tm_index=0

Of course, the simplest answer is to get your CHP and then not worry about this.

Yup, you got it. Besides, the holster you linked does not fall under the specs for "Container or compartment" as described in the law.

FordTek wrote:Here's a twist. My understanding is you can carry concealed in a federal park if you have a chp. What about carrying in your car without a CHP. If I drive through a federal park, like skyline drive, am I still legal?

Is open carry legal in National Parks? I don't recall. If it IS legal, I'd recommend just leaving the handgun in open sight on your passenger's seat. If it is NOT legal to open carry in a National Park (again, I simply can't remember right now), I'd say to either obtain a CHP or keep your bang stick in a locked compartment / container in your trunk.

I was up on Skyline this past weekend and I CC'ed. I plan to return again this coming weekend - (off topic) the news led me to believe that peak colors were occurring last weekend, but I question that. Looked to be *maybe* in the 50-60% peak range - certainly not the 80% they'd claimed.

Jim wrote:

LFS wrote:I wonder if something like the Desantis Kingston Car Seat Holster with Thumb Retention Strap would work:
http://www.desantisholster.com:80/store ... tm_index=0

Of course, the simplest answer is to get your CHP and then not worry about this.

Yup, you got it. Besides, the holster you linked does not fall under the specs for "Container or compartment" as described in the law.

No, but with a thumb strap retaining it in the holster, I wonder if it meets the definition of "secured."

LFS wrote:

Jim wrote:

LFS wrote:I wonder if something like the Desantis Kingston Car Seat Holster with Thumb Retention Strap would work:
http://www.desantisholster.com:80/store ... tm_index=0

Of course, the simplest answer is to get your CHP and then not worry about this.

Yup, you got it. Besides, the holster you linked does not fall under the specs for "Container or compartment" as described in the law.

No, but with a thumb strap retaining it in the holster, I wonder if it meets the definition of "secured."

I'd say in that case, the operable word would be "container or compartment".

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

The wording does not say "secured in a container or compartment of the vehicle or vessel." Therefore, putting your gun in a plastic ziplock sandwich baggie counts, probably so long as you can prove that the baggie will stay sealed when turned upside down to show the "secured" part. It also does not say "enclosed" or "fully enclosed" or covered or anything else to suggest that no part of the gun can be exposed. Holsters are well known to be containers of firearms, and one with enough retention to stop the gun from falling out when turned upside does securely contain the gun.

LFS wrote:

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

The wording does not say "secured in a container or compartment of the vehicle or vessel." Therefore, putting your gun in a plastic ziplock sandwich baggie counts, probably so long as you can prove that the baggie will stay sealed when turned upside down to show the "secured" part. It also does not say "enclosed" or "fully enclosed" or covered or anything else to suggest that no part of the gun can be exposed. Holsters are well known to be containers of firearms, and one with enough retention to stop the gun from falling out when turned upside does securely contain the gun.

The current wording has some wiggle room. Don't put it past a over zealous prosecutor to argue against your interpretation. The previous wordings of that statue (when it was still a bill...I.e. had not been past yet) made the legislatures intention clear, but also required that the container could be locked. The debate around that statue suggests the legislature was thinking of glove boxes and other compartments of a vehicle.

This illustrates a key problem with all such nanny state laws. You can't put into code every possible situation. It is a dumb idea to criminalize possession of an object with no other crime. The state should focus on catching criminals who have actually done something to harm another citizen.

gunderwood wrote:

LFS wrote:

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

The wording does not say "secured in a container or compartment of the vehicle or vessel." Therefore, putting your gun in a plastic ziplock sandwich baggie counts, probably so long as you can prove that the baggie will stay sealed when turned upside down to show the "secured" part. It also does not say "enclosed" or "fully enclosed" or covered or anything else to suggest that no part of the gun can be exposed. Holsters are well known to be containers of firearms, and one with enough retention to stop the gun from falling out when turned upside does securely contain the gun.

The current wording has some wiggle room. Don't put it past a over zealous prosecutor to argue against your interpretation. The previous wordings of that statue (when it was still a bill...I.e. had not been past yet) made the legislatures intention clear, but also required that the container could be locked. The debate around that statue suggests the legislature was thinking of glove boxes and other compartments of a vehicle.

Absolutely. I found this: "(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a combination, or other similar means.”
here: http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/secure ... ty-device/
The center console on the wifes car has no lock so it doesn't get used.

gunderwood wrote:The state should focus on catching criminals who have actually done something to harm another citizen.

Are you kidding? That could be dangerous! After all, the most important thing is to go home safe after every shift.

Diomed wrote:

gunderwood wrote:The state should focus on catching criminals who have actually done something to harm another citizen.

Are you kidding? That could be dangerous! After all, the most important thing is to go home safe after every shift.

would this be considerd concealed or is this ok just wondering I dont have a concealed perment yet and didnt want truble if i got pulled over

Jim wrote:The key word is "secured", meaning the container or compartment must be closeable with some type of device to keep the container closed. Nothing says it must be locked or lockable and nothing dictates location. I seriously doubt that you could get off with a map pocket in a door.

I agree with Jim. No sense in splitting hairs on this one. Remember this: there will always be an over-zealous LEO out there, an antigun prosecutor and a judge who will try to legislate from the bench. I'd follow the 'KISS" principle -- keep it simple, stupid.