Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I've read through the law, as posted on the VA State Police website, but I want to be sure that I'm clear on it. The law states that you can not take a gun on to school property. I've copied the section about the exceptions below:

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
Here's a link to the whole thing for reference: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1

As a CHP holder, I know that I can drop my kid off at school with a handgun in the car. But let's say that I get there late and have to go in to the school and sign them in at the office; or I have a teacher conference at the school and have a handgun with me. Based on this, I should be able to unload, put it in the trunk, and go in to the school. Is that the way you understand this? We all have heard many times about guns not being allowed on school property, and zero tolerance for students, and such. But based on my reading of this, I think I have been thinking more in terms of school policy rather than knowing what the actual law states.
On the same note, is the glove compartment considered a closed container? My vehicle doesn't have a trunk. What about one of those lock boxes that you attach to the seat frame with cable?


Parry

newdovo wrote:As a CHP holder, I know that I can drop my kid off at school with a handgun in the car. But let's say that I get there late and have to go in to the school and sign them in at the office; or I have a teacher conference at the school and have a handgun with me. Based on this, I should be able to unload, put it in the trunk, and go in to the school. Is that the way you understand this? We all have heard many times about guns not being allowed on school property, and zero tolerance for students, and such. But based on my reading of this, I think I have been thinking more in terms of school policy rather than knowing what the actual law states.

On the same note, is the glove compartment considered a closed container? My vehicle doesn't have a trunk. What about one of those lock boxes that you attach to the seat frame with cable?

Parry

I carry all day at work, and volunteer at my son's school one afternoon a week. I park off-campus, unholster, unload, and secure my sidearm (I keep a holster in the car, and have a locking drawer under a seat), then drive onto the campus. As I understand it, the firearm MUST STAY CONCEALED while on campus. That's why I take care of all the particulars across the street instead.

If you have a locking glove box, that would probably suffice. A cable safe would be better, assuming you could hide it well. If you're concerned, I know some folks have been known to run a cable through the action and secure the gun directly to the bottom of the front seat.

OakRidgeStars wrote:While you can drive onto school property with your concealed handgun, you cannot step out of your vehicle to place the gun in the trunk. Your only choice is to park off campus, then unload and place the gun in a locked container. Placing the gun in the glove box or console does not comply with current law.

Even a lock box like you're describing is a gray area if you're driving a vehicle without a trunk.

What about a locking console in the vehicle? The law states "For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk." - it doesn't say a locking container "has to be the trunk" - so if I unload it and place it in a locked console, wouldn't that pass the letter and the spirit of the law? I don't have a trunk either - and my glovebox doesn't lock so I'm looking at a locking console vault...

The law just states a closed container, it doe not have to lock. The trunk is listed separately so that the gun or other weapon does not have to be in a closed container inside the trunk, the trunk itself acts as a closed container.

If you do not have a permit, the closed container would have to be located remote from the driver since it is considered a concealed weapon at this point and can only be carried to and from the range, hunting, store, etc. unless is open to observation. An open to observation weapon obviously fails the closed container rule. As stated the concealed or open weapon carrier would have to place the unloaded gun in a closed container prior to entering school grounds if they wish to leave the vehicle. The OC would have to place it remote from the driver, trunk or far back of an SUV, wether they are leaving the vehicle or not the CC could place it anywhere in a closed container.

Note this is just for handguns, unloaded rifles and shotguns can be placed in a rifle rack, or in a closed case.

I think you guys hit the nail on the head here.

Most people think that they can simply take their gun out, unload it, and stow it.....that is wrong.

If you have a CHP, once you enter school property and are in the parking lot, bus loop, etc:

A) the gun must stay concealed
B) you must stay in the vehicle

if you are going to have to get out of the car to do something, unloaded and stow the gun before you get onto school property.

wally626 wrote:The law just states a closed container, it doe not have to lock. The trunk is listed separately so that the gun or other weapon does not have to be in a closed container inside the trunk, the trunk itself acts as a closed container.

If you do not have a permit, the closed container would have to be located remote from the driver since it is considered a concealed weapon at this point and can only be carried to and from the range, hunting, store, etc. unless is open to observation. An open to observation weapon obviously fails the closed container rule. As stated the concealed or open weapon carrier would have to place the unloaded gun in a closed container prior to entering school grounds if they wish to leave the vehicle. The OC would have to place it remote from the driver, trunk or far back of an SUV, wether they are leaving the vehicle or not the CC could place it anywhere in a closed container.

Note this is just for handguns, unloaded rifles and shotguns can be placed in a rifle rack, or in a closed case.

Thats correct. No VA requirement for the container to be locked or or the gun to be cased.

So a "closed container" could be a gun case? And remote would be behind or under the back seats? I have a PU so looking for options as well.

gregj wrote:So a "closed container" could be a gun case? And remote would be behind or under the back seats? I have a PU so looking for options as well.

Closed container could be a gun case if you're in a pickup with the gun and ammo separated from each other. Gun unloaded and as far out of reach as possible.

So If I understand this correctly in order for CHP holder to exit vehicle:
1. Gun must be unloaded.
2. Gun must be in a container.
3. Container does NOT need to be locked.
4. Container does NOT need to be in trunk or out of reach.

??? - BUT - ???

Q1 - Is a glove compartment or center console count as a container? Or is it somehow considered a compartment and therefore NOT a container? Is there a case citation for this?
Q2 - Where in the law does it say the gun and the ammo have to be separated? Or is this another judicial "interpretation"?

zephyp wrote:Thats correct. No VA requirement for the container to be locked or or the gun to be cased.

May not be a VA requirement, but for my own peace of mind - I want a locked container. I've had too many issues with smash-n-grabs, so I think a console vault is in order....

So If I understand this correctly in order for CHP holder to exit vehicle:
1. Gun must be unloaded.
2. Gun must be in a container.
3. Container does NOT need to be locked.
4. Container does NOT need to be in trunk or out of reach.

??? - BUT - ???

Q1 - Is a glove compartment or center console count as a container? Or is it somehow considered a compartment and therefore NOT a container? Is there a case citation for this?
Q2 - Where in the law does it say the gun and the ammo have to be separated? Or is this another judicial "interpretation"?

Free internet answer warning

If you have and are carrying your CPP
1. Yes, can be loaded only if you stay in vehicle
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes

If you do not have a CPP
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No, since you can not drive with it in the car unless it is remote or open, if open you can not drive onto school grounds.

Q1 A center console or glove box would count for a CCP holder, but not a non CPP holder
After July 1 if locked should count for both.

Q2 Some states require separate containers and use this wording, but I do not remember it being in the VA code, just that it has to be unloaded.

What about a clear container? Would that count as visible so it isn't "hidden from common observation," but also the gun is clearly in Tupperware...I mean a container.

Gun laws, they just don't make any sense.

How many angels. . .?