Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hi,

I've been working on a potential trade with a gentleman I have met via the internet. Before talking specifics I feel like I've gotten basic questions fielded to ensure he is legit, and I think, likewise, he feels that I am legit.

What he has to offer is a Magpul Stock sites, grips, two 30 rd mags. .223 and 5.56 rounds, upper and lower are made by Palmetto State Armory. I will be receiving the serial numbers tomorrow to have them run to ensure its status. Likewise, if we come to agreement, he will run my name with a Police Officer friend. He is a Defensive Tactics teacher, btw, and purchased this from a fellow instructor. We will also be doing a bill of sale to show his relinquishing ownership to me. Any legal issue I am missing? Anything we are missing here?

Finally, this is a bartered deal, and I admit frankly to anyone here I am not familiar with AR's. He is valuing the AR at $1,600 - $2,200 in our trade. While I do not know much about AR's, I have always wanted one but knew that my wife would never go for me dropping that much cash on one...but this trade is a win/win for everyone.

Thanks in advance.

seems like a lot of $$$ for a psa. i didn't spend that much on my new noveske n4, which along with kac, dd and usually, colt, are considered top-tier ar companies. in the end, though, only you can decide if the trade is equitable.
if you decide to go for it, i say just enjoy it and shoot the pi$$ out of it.

JC77 wrote: I will be receiving the serial numbers tomorrow to have them run to ensure its status.

How do you intend to "ensure its status"? Unless you're a cop, or bosom buddies with one, you can't have a NCIC check done on the serial number.

He is valuing the AR at $1,600 - $2,200 in our trade.

Unless PSA uppers and lowers are way more valuable than the last time I checked, that's way high. While some details can affect the price, I wouldn't pay more than $700 for the rifle. Maybe another $150 for the Magpul stuff - it's used, not new.

I'm sure others can give more precise estimates, but that's a champagne asking price to me. It'd have to be a LMT, Noveske or other top shelf maker to bring that kind of money.

JC77 wrote:Finally, this is a bartered deal, and I admit frankly to anyone here I am not familiar with AR's. He is valuing the AR at $1,600 - $2,200 in our trade. While I do not know much about AR's, I have always wanted one but knew that my wife would never go for me dropping that much cash on one...but this trade is a win/win for everyone.

The seller must be mighty cute for you to take that kinda deal on those parts.

For 2200 you can be buying a NEW top tier builders AR with full backing from the maker, and all the bells and whistles.

looks like you can about duplicate that for $1200 +/- depending on options.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... ckage.html


For about a grand, I'd be hard pressed not to pick up a colt 6920. I think that would be a better rifle than the PSA.
http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/produc ... e_Page%20=


Perhaps there is something in the package that raises the price to this level, but I'm just not seeing the valuation that the seller is putting on the package.

You're getting hosed.

That rifle is worth 740-800$ tops, add MAYBE 150-175$ for the magpul stuff.

These types of configurations sell in STORES for less than $1000.

Do not pay more than $800-$900.

-Alex

I agree with everyone above. That rifle is worth well under $1,000.

You're better off just putting one together yourself.

On PSA's website now:

A completed hammer forged upper, 16" M4 profile, with BCG, charge handle, Magpul handguard, and MBUS rear sight is $587.90.

A completed lower with Magpul stock is $299.

So for under $900 you could buy the necessary parts to make that rifle that he's trying to sell to you for more. You could even swap in a higher-end BCM charge handle and bolt carrier group and still keep it under $1,000.

Also worth noting, you could probably cut $200 out of the price of the upper if you chose to go with a traditional chrome-moly barrel vs. hammer forged. For comparison purposes I just assumed the rifle this guy is trying to sell is hammer forged.

I want to sincerely thank everyone for their input. As I said, I really never looked too far into the AR's as with our budget at our house I knew what the wife's answer would be...and a happy marriage is always most important.

I hope I have not bashed the gentlemans value of the gun (that was not my intention), it should be said that my bartering offer could certainly be construed as not meeting his range, too. For me, the trade, even at the value you have suggested would be fine to me as the item I have is simply not worth much to me any longer. A different time, a different financial circumstance perhaps, but not currently or the foreseeable future. Basically to keep the wife happy I must give up something to get something.

Diomed: thank you for the input on the running of the serial numbers. I have to fully admit I did not think of that, but as it happens I do have a good friend in Law Enforcement. Plus I am in a small town with, if you will, "good ole boy" sheriff department as a second option. Would I be putting him (my friend) in an awkward or compromising situation by asking him to run it? I really wouldn't want to do that. Perhaps I could just check the site below that I saw referenced on another gun site?

http://www.stolenweapon.com/Stolen-Gun- ... earch.html

I really want to let each of you know I very sincerely appreciate your suggestions, information and kindness. I will look into using this to lowering and changing the barter deal. I truly love this site and the great people here.

$800 maybe if the extras are good!

JC77 wrote:Would I be putting him (my friend) in an awkward or compromising situation by asking him to run it? I really wouldn't want to do that. Perhaps I could just check the site below that I saw referenced on another gun site?

http://www.stolenweapon.com/Stolen-Gun- ... earch.html

NCIC access is supposed to be for official purposes only, there may be lower standards for accessing the stolen firearm database than, for example, the human criminal background records. You can ask him what the policies are and if he's comfortable running it.

The problem with the site you mention is that it's solely made up of self-reported gun info. I'd be very surprised if it's got a tenth as many entries as NCIC. Even if the gun is stolen, it's a very, very long shot it would be in there. No harm trying, of course.

If you are willing to drop $2k on a rifle, you could do MUCH better... or get 2! Or get one and a really nice optic.

In either case, most people have already given feedback on what they think it's worth. I'm not an expert, but I would hope the Bill of Sale could protect you in a face to face transaction. If you are worried, go through an FFL.

JC77 wrote:Likewise, if we come to agreement, he will run my name with a Police Officer friend.

Does he mean to run you through VCIN? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying and what was taught in the class, that's illegal.

He has valued the rifle at double its worth, and honestly if either of you have doubts about the other's background just go to an FFL dealer, have them do a transfer and have the buyer go through the usual background check. That's really the only way to cover yourselves beyond the usual face to face procedures.

Sorry guys for my delay in replying, I did not get a reply notification in my inbox and after that I was on a planned vacation. I am back and still looking at AR's.

Point taken very seriously on the reported stolen website. Thank you.

The many points on the worth of the guys AR is taken very seriously and is why I'm looking at 3 others now, too.

I did talk to my LEO friend and he said he would feel comfortable running the serial number of an AR once I got to the stage of purchasing. In his words if it's a bad gun it needs to be dealt with. FWIW, he's a pro gun NRA, GOA guy.

Finally, good point on not being legal for the present AR owner running my info. I did not have a problem with a LEO doing it because I have nothing to hide but I shouldn't volunteer to do that for this AR guy.

Anyone want to give feedback on Bushmaster AR's? I know the value of this one, just would like to know the quality and other thoughts.

Frankly, this would be a lot cleaner, easier and worthwhile if I could just sell the car and buy the AR with the money of the sold car. But, I have to keep the wife happy as I made my share of mistakes earlier on.

Bushmaster makes commercial-grade rifles, fine for casual users but lacking for serious (IE defensive) use. Offerings from Colt, Daniel Defense, Noveske, LMT, KAC, or Spikes tend to round out your standard group of "higher quality" rifles.

Seems kind of high

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