Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

This is a piece I wrote at the end of my senior year in high school. It was supposed to be an editorial on the death penalty but I believe I start drifting around the middle a little. Amazing the stuff you find when you look through your documents folder.



The death penalty. Just mentioning this phrase in a crowd is sure to spark a debate on the ethics of killing another human being. Never mind that in this country, unlike others, to even be considered for the death penalty that person has to have already killed someone themselves. Now, in my logic at least, if you kill someone for any reason other than self defense there’s nothing to stop you from doing it again, so you should die as not just a punishment, but as a preventative measure as well, not in this day and age though. The liberal media has misconstrued the public so much that the old “eye for an eye” feeling that was so prevalent in this country from it’s beginning is starting to wane into non-existence, but there are those like me who believe in the “eye for an eye” way of thinking and that it should cover not just murder, but other harsh crimes that are just punished by the proverbial “slap on the wrist”, such as rape, child abuse, and multiple offenders who commit violent crimes. Another thing that makes no sense to many is the fact that even after convicted, those that do get the death penalty have five or six chances to get it overturned through appeals, all the while sitting on death row, wasting taxpayer money as they’re fed and clothed while spending more taxpayer money on their appeals process. I say we do away with the multiple appeals and drop the number down to two, add that to a limit on how long you can sit on death row, say two years, and that’s hundreds of thousands of dollars saved right there. While were at it though we could also bring back the old ways of the death penalty, firing squads, the electric chair, the gas chamber, even hangings. Lethal injection is a method of execution that, in my opinion, doesn’t actually punish the offender, because by the time they die, they’re already asleep. Let the families of the victims choose how the person dies, not the offender, there’s no closure when a family whose loved ones were killed in a violent act watches the person that did calmly die in their sleep. I say if you’re state doesn’t have the death penalty, work your hardest to get one, and if your state does have it, try to get it to cover a wider range of crimes, like rape and other violent crimes. The only way to curb criminal behavior is not to put them in jail or on death row for 15 years, but to set an example that if you kill or rape someone, we will kill you. Some people deserve a second chance, but then again there’s a small group who don’t.

A+

-5 for lateness

Palladin wrote:A+

-5 for lateness

+1
Bill

SgtBill wrote:

Palladin wrote:A+

-5 for lateness

+1
Bill

+2

I'm for the death penalty, but would like to remind all that it is for justice, not revenge.
I mention this because you say lethal injection isn't punishment. The criminal is dead. That's a pretty good punishment!

The death penalty is not there for us to torture(shots that would not kill, letting them suffocate while hanging, improper function of electricity, etc) the guy because he committed a violent crime/crime of passion. As you said, it's there for punishment and preventative measures. Torturing a guy for torturing someone just because a jury votes "yay" doesn't make it any more humane. Yes, the person may have acted like a mindless animal, but that does not give us
the right act like animals back. From the perspective I'm at, it's just going down to their level, however organized we might make it. Doing so is
us reacting to their crime emotionally/passionately, just like their crime may have been. The death penalty is just that, a penalty.
A penalty I feel that needs to be handled rationally and objectively for the sole purpose of justice, not revenge.

Though, I would vote for the guillotine. It's quick, humane, and makes a strong impression.

Keep in mind, just like your editorial, this is simply how I feel on the matter.

wbtrunx wrote:I'm for the death penalty, but would like to remind all that it is for justice, not revenge.
I mention this because you say lethal injection isn't punishment. The criminal is dead. That's a pretty good punishment!

I beg to differ. Punishment? That's like dying in your sleep. Since we all have to go, that would be the preferred manner, and you see what happened with Kevorkian. Now, you mentioned the guillotine...

wbtrunx wrote:I'm for the death penalty, but would like to remind all that it is for justice, not revenge.
I mention this because you say lethal injection isn't punishment. The criminal is dead. That's a pretty good punishment!

The death penalty is not there for us to torture(shots that would not kill, letting them suffocate while hanging, improper function of electricity, etc) the guy because he committed a violent crime/crime of passion. As you said, it's there for punishment and preventative measures. Torturing a guy for torturing someone just because a jury votes "yay" doesn't make it any more humane. Yes, the person may have acted like a mindless animal, but that does not give us
the right act like animals back. From the perspective I'm at, it's just going down to their level, however organized we might make it. Doing so is
us reacting to their crime emotionally/passionately, just like their crime may have been. The death penalty is just that, a penalty.
A penalty I feel that needs to be handled rationally and objectively for the sole purpose of justice, not revenge.

Though, I would vote for the guillotine. It's quick, humane, and makes a strong impression.

Keep in mind, just like your editorial, this is simply how I feel on the matter.

Well, lets not forget that the purpose of the death penalty is twofold:

(1) Remove the offensive vermin from society and

(2) As a deterrent so other vermin get the message.

Criminals in this country know the liberals love to coddle them to death (pun intended). If they hear and read stories about their buddies frying in the electric chair or their eyes popping out or crapping themselves when they get hung then they might think twice about committing their next crime. I dont necessarily believe in an eye for an eye but if we gonna kill evil doers then lets at least get some mileage out of it.

Btw, Cody -- A+ Great article. Who cares if it was a little late.

... as an aside to this thread; what about those currently on, or previously on, death-row who have been found not guilty of the crimes as sentenced?

I mention this, because the same "government" that provides such retarded gun "laws" is also the same government that administers the Death Penalty - do we expect them to get it "right" under the Death Penalty, when they get it "wrong" under so many other actions....?

Death Penalty is absolute - you can't "undo" that action. While I do not believe that our prison system currently "punishes" anyone - more like an extended stay with three meals and a cot; I'd just don't trust the Government to get it right - or at least there should be extraordinary proof-positive of the guilty party's actions/sentencing.

wbtrunx wrote:I'm for the death penalty, but would like to remind all that it is for justice, not revenge.
I mention this because you say lethal injection isn't punishment. The criminal is dead. That's a pretty good punishment!

The death penalty is not there for us to torture(shots that would not kill, letting them suffocate while hanging, improper function of electricity, etc) the guy because he committed a violent crime/crime of passion. As you said, it's there for punishment and preventative measures. Torturing a guy for torturing someone just because a jury votes "yay" doesn't make it any more humane. Yes, the person may have acted like a mindless animal, but that does not give us
the right act like animals back. From the perspective I'm at, it's just going down to their level, however organized we might make it. Doing so is
us reacting to their crime emotionally/passionately, just like their crime may have been. The death penalty is just that, a penalty.
A penalty I feel that needs to be handled rationally and objectively for the sole purpose of justice, not revenge.

Though, I would vote for the guillotine. It's quick, humane, and makes a strong impression.

Keep in mind, just like your editorial, this is simply how I feel on the matter.

Well, I am for the death penalty. I am also for the electric chair, gallows, firing squad, and given the right set of circumstances perhaps drawing and quartering. I have to say that crimes of passion rarely IF ever are death penalty cases. Its pretty much for the hard core murderers and the most vicious of our society. It suits them just fine. I also find no need to drag 'animals' into this, as rarely have I ever seen an animal kill just for the fun of it. Someone else mentioned that the death penalty is two fold, and I agree. The more important aspect has to be the deterrent, because lets face it, when dealing with a deranged person who will rape and kill a women three times his age and violate her dead body.... you are not going to be talking about a person who is a candidate for rehabilitation. When the United States phased out its "sparky's" and gary gillmore took his seat for the crimes he committed , murderers across the nation started getting treated better than they deserved. I have to admit, I enjoyed hearing of Dahlmers' demise at the hands of inmates. He deserved it, I hope his last moments were torture for him. I have no problem when a muderer who beat a women beyond recognition even though her two young daughters were there, and the woman was 3 months pregnant,and then shot the 9 yr old TWICE in the face, and the other girl was shot dead as she ran for her life, had his eyeballs popped out in the electric chair in florida, TINY DAVIS deserved that death, with all its horrors. The truth is that there is some other "bad units" out there that see this stuff and are deterred. Just because a talented ACLU lawyer can raise a 'doubt' in an otherwise solid case against a murdering fiend, it doesn't mean that justice is done by allowing the killer to walk away, anyone remember the O.J.Simpson case? I agree that there have probably been people who were put to death wrongly, however, in todays criminal justice with the technology that exists today with DNA matching, that argument is foolish. An eye for an eye . It works for me.

i think lethal injection probably costs too much as a guess.....bullets are much cheaper

Thanks so much guys, and just so you know GS78 they didn't faze out them Sparkys......there's gonna be a electric chair execution this year in VA. And get this....it's an elective means of execution which means this guy wants to go out in a dimming of the lights.

For more information visit here: http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/virginia/row.html

Next scheduled execution in VA is I believe the animal Larry Elliot who was convicted in PWC for x2 murder. 5 days from now.

jadedone4 wrote:... as an aside to this thread; what about those currently on, or previously on, death-row who have been found not guilty of the crimes as sentenced?

I mention this, because the same "government" that provides such retarded gun "laws" is also the same government that administers the Death Penalty - do we expect them to get it "right" under the Death Penalty, when they get it "wrong" under so many other actions....?

Death Penalty is absolute - you can't "undo" that action. While I do not believe that our prison system currently "punishes" anyone - more like an extended stay with three meals and a cot; I'd just don't trust the Government to get it right - or at least there should be extraordinary proof-positive of the guilty party's actions/sentencing.

This is a good argument. One of the things I pose here is IF we are going to have a justice system with laws and punishment and IF we are going to try those suspected of a crime by that justice system then punishment should be swift and decisive. Note my emphasis on IF. Our current system of government required appeals for death row inmates place doubt upon that very same justice system. If the system is wrong then it needs to be fixed. If its ok then I'm all for taking them out back right after sentence is passed.

Remember that the jury is instructed regarding "beyond a shadow of doubt."

Having said that there is doubt in the system as evidenced by those found not guilty and released.

goodoleboy wrote:Thanks so much guys, and just so you know GS78 they didn't faze out them Sparkys......there's gonna be a electric chair execution this year in VA. And get this....it's an elective means of execution which means this guy wants to go out in a dimming of the lights.

For more information visit here: http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/virginia/row.html

Next scheduled execution in VA is I believe the animal Larry Elliot who was convicted in PWC for x2 murder. 5 days from now.

Well thats a welcomed surprise, I read through the link, but didn't see anything about the electric chair, maybe its too early.... I will look again...

GS78 wrote:

goodoleboy wrote:Thanks so much guys, and just so you know GS78 they didn't faze out them Sparkys......there's gonna be a electric chair execution this year in VA. And get this....it's an elective means of execution which means this guy wants to go out in a dimming of the lights.

For more information visit here: http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/virginia/row.html

Next scheduled execution in VA is I believe the animal Larry Elliot who was convicted in PWC for x2 murder. 5 days from now.

Well thats a welcomed surprise, I read through the link, but didn't see anything about the electric chair, maybe its too early.... I will look again...

that's more of a link to the general death row roster here in va right now. Will continue to look for links though, but it probably won't be in the news much until the day after.

+1 on the guillotine idea for murderers. While we're at it we should make a miniature version to give "the chop" to rapists and child molesters. Now THAT'S punishment.

HostileApostle wrote:+1 on the guillotine idea for murderers. While we're at it we should make a miniature version to give "the chop" to rapists and child molesters. Now THAT'S punishment.

I disagree on the rapists/molesters. Put them in a shed with a vice. Clamp em in the vice nice n snug and lock the vice. Hand them a rusty knife and set the shed on fire.

I like your idea Jigsaw...you must be a fan of the "SAW" movies...

HostileApostle wrote:...you must be a fan of the "SAW" movies...

Man - that stuff is freaky.

The debate over the death penalty will wage forever. If it were banned (again) then proponents of execution would be upset. Presently it is the opponents who are upset that the death penalty is legal. So long as people have opinions we will see opinions on both sides and everywhere in between.

The justice system, despite claims of "blindness", is, in many locales, a political game played out by attorneys using human life and livelihood as poker chips. Public defenders are overwhelmed and those with wealth can afford "the best" dream-team of lawyers. Corrupt officials get protections. Exceptions to law for certain groups of people exemplify the disparity between "We the People" and those who make and enforce our laws. Why should a police officer be free to carry a weapon anywhere he chooses, but a law abiding free citizen cannot? Because "feel good" legislation says that people are scared of an armed citizen and trust only the police to carry. Police are not infallible (and I support our LEOs with just as much gusto as I do our military), but when does a badge convey privilege? When lawmakers corral our freedom.

Laws tell us what we can not do, and provide for punishments when those laws are broken. So-called "Feel Good Legislation" corrupts our legal system. They are enacted by lawmakers who care nothing about the legal system or our Constitution/Bill of Rights/Declaration of Independence and would rather earn political capital to ensure their re-election.

novasig226r wrote:The debate over the death penalty will wage forever. If it were banned (again) then proponents of execution would be upset. Presently it is the opponents who are upset that the death penalty is legal. So long as people have opinions we will see opinions on both sides and everywhere in between.

The justice system, despite claims of "blindness", is, in many locales, a political game played out by attorneys using human life and livelihood as poker chips. Public defenders are overwhelmed and those with wealth can afford "the best" dream-team of lawyers. Corrupt officials get protections. Exceptions to law for certain groups of people exemplify the disparity between "We the People" and those who make and enforce our laws. Why should a police officer be free to carry a weapon anywhere he chooses, but a law abiding free citizen cannot? Because "feel good" legislation says that people are scared of an armed citizen and trust only the police to carry. Police are not infallible (and I support our LEOs with just as much gusto as I do our military), but when does a badge convey privilege? When lawmakers corral our freedom.

Laws tell us what we can not do, and provide for punishments when those laws are broken. So-called "Feel Good Legislation" corrupts our legal system. They are enacted by lawmakers who care nothing about the legal system or our Constitution/Bill of Rights/Declaration of Independence and would rather earn political capital to ensure their re-election.

well police officers do have a lot more people looking for revenge than the average 'joe' however, I say that only because I understand "why" they can carry everywhere....as for the law abiding 'joe' I think he too should be allowed to carry where ever he wants also.