Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **Chingon** » Fri, 02 Mar 2012 07:14:02

Dispelling myths about 12 gauge bird shot in home defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA250yz2 ... re=related

by **dorminWS** » Fri, 02 Mar 2012 10:31:15

"a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. "

First observation:
I would expect the above wound would seriously discourage 999 out of 1000 people from screwing with the shooter any more.

Second Observation:
Load some 00 Buck behind the #6 (I think I'd use #4 if I were going to use a shotgun loaded with birdshot for home defense) for anyone who IS NOT discouraged by the above; because he's going to take some serious discouraging.

Third Observation:
In terms of the legal aftermath, it seems to me you can get in too big a hurry to kill somebody. Waiting 'till the second shot doesn't seem all that pacifistic to me.

by **Wallace** » Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:01:29

jdonovan wrote:
Wallace wrote:I am not saying it is the only option, or the best, but it should not be completely ruled out.

Hey if you are going to consider birdshot... I'd look into this http://www.amazon.com/Nerf-N-Strike-Vulcan-EBF-25-Blaster/dp/B0013U95U2 too. Real low chance of over penetration, and LOTS of ammo.

My son has one of those and let me tell you what, they aint no joke. A little modification to the spring and it will damn near put an eye out, just ask my daughters! lol

by **Mindflayer** » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:08:32

If I pull a shotgun out, there's no racking. If things are that bad, I want that shell in the chamber.
I'd like to find #1, but 00 reduced recoil it is.

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by **mk4** » Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:13:42

Mindflayer wrote:If I pull a shotgun out, there's no racking. If things are that bad, I want that shell in the chamber.
I'd like to find #1, but 00 reduced recoil it is.

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I've got a lgs that generally stocks 1 buck. Mostly 2 3/4", but sometimes 3" magnums. Lemme know if you want me to look into it for you.

by **fuze** » Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:30:37

The shotgun is loaded with 3 1/2 #4 BUCKshot. 54 ball bearings. Nasty stuff.

by **bryanrheem** » Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:45:19

Just my 2cents: #4 buckshot I think would be the best combination of stopping power w/o over-penetration. I did research and read that in most home defense situations (meaning ranges of around 7ft), #4 buckshot would penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs w/o exiting the other end. This also means the intruder receives the full force of impact.

Unfortunately, most ammo shops (and gun shows) rarely carry #4 buckshot although you can find it on the web. It really was a pain for me because I want to practice with the load that's in my HD shotgun. I have children in my home and that's a consideration if they are not in the room with me.

by **mk4** » Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:53:54

Interesting discussion.
I chose #1 buck, over 00, based on reading one of Mas Ayoob's books.

by **Kory** » Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:49:26

#4 buckshot is what a Leo friend of mine used/was issued (maybe) not 100% sure he died recently

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by **jdonovan** » Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:51:03

Kory wrote:#4 buckshot is what a Leo friend of mine used/was issued (maybe) not 100% sure he died recently

LEO's often don't get the best tools for the job. They get what a bureaucrat got a good deal on.

by **gunderwood** » Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:30:47

jdonovan wrote:
Kory wrote:#4 buckshot is what a Leo friend of mine used/was issued (maybe) not 100% sure he died recently

LEO's often don't get the best tools for the job. They get what a bureaucrat got a good deal on.

Yes and no. The LE market really drove the various ammo manufacturers to develop high quality HPs. Lot's of money and testing because the contracts were so large. It's a good point though, just because LE/Military uses it doesn't make it the "best." That being said, the most common loads for LE 12ga are usually 00 buck and 12ga slugs. Reduced recoil HP slugs are a popular compromise. The best HD/LE 00 buck IMHO is the Federal 9 pellet tactical loads, but my favorite HD load is the low recoil 12ga HP slugs. Those things expand rapidly to about 1.5" donuts and penetrate about 12". Brassfetcher had done a test on them and they blew out the sides of their 6" block (6x6x16 IIRC) whereas 00buck/etc. a 6" cross section was more than sufficient to contain the terminal effects. The only other round I've seen blow fist sized holes in gel after a few inches of penetration is my .45/70 hunting rounds (Hornady FTX 325gr@2000fps give or take). As long as your target isn't wearing body armor, it's as good as it gets IMHO.

http://le.atk.com/general/federalproduc ... dslug.aspx

Edit: As for those advocating birdshot...if it can't go through a couple sheets of drywall, it's not going to penetrate to vitals. People forget that gel approximates soft tissue; skin, leather jackets, denim, chest cavity, etc. are actually worth several inches of gel penetration. I'll take an effective HD load first and then use my judgement as to when/how to deploy it...no point in keeping an ineffective tool around just in case I miss.

by **OSU84** » Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:24:16

number 4 shot is recommended if you are worried about over penetration. I use the Centurion buck and ball round. It has a 69 caliber ball along with 3 00 buck. has a nice pattern on the target I shot 6 roundss at for practice.